On the up: What will higher interest rates mean for real estate investors in New Zealand and further afield?
The Land of the Long White Cloud is shaping up to raise rates and the country may well be a bellwether for the Australia...
When’s a good time to sell your property? And what should you do with your wealth when you do? These are some of the questions many investors encounter as they travel on their investment journey.
In this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show, host Phil Tarrant is joined by financial adviser Tony Caine and mortgage broker Troy Phillips to discuss the benefits to working with financial mentors, the ways in which investors can channel their sales profits and leverage their debt, and why they believe having an entrepreneurial edge and investing in one’s self is the key to investment success.
You’ll hear all of this and much, much more on this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show. Tune in now!
Did you like this episode? Show your support by rating us on iTunes (The Smart Property Investment Show) and by liking and following Smart Property Investment on social media: Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. If you have any questions about what you heard today, any topics of interest you have in mind, or if you’d like to lend your voice to the show, email [email protected] for more insight!
Phil Tarrant: G'day everyone, Phil Tarrant here welcome to the Smart Property Investment Show. Thanks for tuning in. I'm the editor of Smart Property Investment. Today I'm joined by a couple of guys that I know quite well. I've asked them to the studio and they've been reluctantly able to give me some of their very, very precious time. I've got Troy Phillips from First Point Mortgage Brokers and I've got Tony Cain who's from Standard Lending. How are you going guys?
Tony Caine: Very well mate.
Troy Phillips: Yeah Good. Thanks Phil. Long time no speak.
Phil Tarrant: It is. So bit of background for our listeners: I've known Troy for 13, 14 years.
Troy Phillips: Yeah, I reckon. Pushing 15, Phil.
Phil Tarrant: So Troy was, when I started out as a journalist way back when after university. Troy was one of the first guys who bullied me, gave me a hard time about being a left-wing Pinkie Journo all that time ago.
Troy Phillips: You've changed.
Phil Tarrant: I have changed. I'm sort of now a Capitalist, a capitalist slave to the corporate dollar. What I like about Troy, there's not a lot, but I do enjoy his frankness. I do appreciate and give a lot of credits to his opinion when it comes to lending and property matters, so that's one of the purposes of bringing him in the studio, so Troy, thanks for coming along, mate.
Troy Phillips: Thanks for having me Phil.
Phil Tarrant: And Tony. Tony is an interesting character. Ex-footie player. Played first grade for Cronulla and also St. George way back when.
Tony Caine: Back in the mid-2000's, yeah. 2007, 2008.
Phil Tarrant: Till some bloke broke your leg and you had to give up footie.
Tony Caine: Yeah, it was more an excuse anyway. I had to realise I wasn't quite good enough to be there for too long. Get out there and get a real job.
Phil Tarrant: So now you are in lending games. So Stan is like a bit of a start up in Lenny Space, right?
Tony Caine: That's right. Yes. We've got a Fintech start up where we're a lending platform that's accessible for advisors accountants and lawyers, for their clients.
Phil Tarrant: So professional services, businesses...
Tony Caine: Correct, yep. So if I'm speaking to my accountant and the accountant probably should have some sort of referral or relationship with a mortgage broker in some capacity that's where you sort of sit in.
Troy Phillips: Absolutely. What we find is our accountant’s part of – they might have like a local broker that they use. But what we've - our team is quite big and been around for over 15 years, with Troy’s experience. What we basically do is enable our partners to plug in and get all of our experience to make it quite seamless for their clients.
Phil Tarrant: OK, good. That's the plug you get on the show. I'm gonna give you a hard time today about property markets. But what I like about, what I understand about Tony's business and this is an important thing, it's about sort of building an A team of people in property investments, so if you are serious about investing in property you need to be serious about investing in your own education. Absolutely fundamental. But in order to be good at property investment, I believe you need really smart people around you, and that includes your accountant, absolutely fundamental. Good mortgage broker, a buyer’s agent if you want to use them. Potentially or a financial planner. So people that can give you knowledge, guidance, and advice. So good people in the game will refer you to other good people. So ask the questions to either your accountant or mortgage broker if you are looking for someone to enhance your team. But moving right along property markets, Troy.
Probably somewhere where we butt heads all the time. Is that you tell me, "Phil, you've got a nice big fat portfolio full of equity, you should take some money off the table. It's time to get out." My response is always, to buy and hold, strategy, Troy. Why do you always berate me about this?
Troy Phillips: I think properties had a great run. As a young man I played the share market, and I always waited for that next 10, 15 cents, and a very, very wise old boss of mine always said to me "Troy, you can never go broke taking a profit". I think, at the moment, a lot of people are sitting on a fair bit of equity and a fair bit of profit. You're clients are very well versed in this market. The people that listen to this podcast know property inside out, so I'm not going to lecture there.
I think if there's areas where they think it could be toppy, and they can take some money off the tail and reduce some debt, now's the time to do that. Take a bit of cheap fixed debt if you haven't already. You missed the bottom of that market, but you should be looking at some cheap debt. You should be looking at de-leveraging a bit. I mean, the worlds gone through a massive phase of de-leveraging. So I just think that taking a profit, Phil, is never a bad thing. It's better than taking a loss, doesn't leave a sour taste in your mouth mate.
Phil Tarrant: You know, I'm not going to disagree with you, but what I would say is that, that's cool, I can take some money off the table, so sell a property, sell a number of properties, reduce my debt exposure, cash myself up. I've got liquid money. What do I do with it though? I can chuck it in the bank again and get a couple of percent on it, if I'm lucky. Do I just pack it away and leave it, and wait for a new opportunity to come along?
Troy Phillips: Well I think that you've done a magnificent job. If a lot of your listeners are like you, there's a thing called core wealth. Talk to an advisor, or someone you trust, and look at how you are going to put your core wealth away. You get to the edge of forty, forty-five, and you don't want to keep taking risks. This is how I sort of live my life. You want to pack some money away, that's your core wealth, and you want to have some money where you can have a play again in the property market. You're a property man, you're a property man, there's always going to be opportunities in other states.
I mean I was very staid. I was like, if you can't drive past an investment property, then you shouldn't buy it. That's well through the nineties and everything else. I mean I never went as far abreast as other states, but I just think, you're not gonna get a great return on interest rates, but you're gonna take some cash, and you're gonna have some ammo, or as I always say, have a bit of powder in you, because something could come up. There could be another business opportunity. There could be another form of asset, you know. Pubs are fully priced at the moment, there could be other forms of property assets that you can get into. Retail assets, etc. when they come down. So just have a bit of powder, dry it. When the banks start to tighten up their lending, that's when property might come back a bit. Then you can jump in again.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah, sage advice. Maybe this is something you can explain to our listeners. Let's say hypothetically, I sell a couple of properties and I get cashed up, and I've got two, three, four, five hundred grand in cash sitting around, what could I actually do with that money. So I could put it into a bank account, a high interest savings, I might get 2 percent.
Troy Phillips: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: I could put into something a little bit more fixed, like a term deposit or some other cash investment. If I was to put that money, offset against the debt on my other properties, would that be a good way to use the money?
Troy Phillips: Well, a hundred percent. Well look, most of your listeners are going to be positively geared. The old word negative gearing doesn't exist anymore. Even though it's getting a lot of press out there. I don't think where the rates are, a lot of people are negatively geared. There's fixed rates now, with a hundred percent offset. So tip it in there, and save yourself some money and improve your cash flow. That's what I'd say, a hundred percent. That's the best deal for a property player.
So I'm not saying go and put it into a term deposit at 2.1 percent with your favourite bank so that they can take margin on it. I'm saying give it back to the bank. If you've got a good fixed rate with a hundred percent offset – and there's some out there, and we can help you with that if you want to know where they are – put it in there, and you can redraw it at any other time. You're saving yourself money and you're improving your cashflow. It's a no brainer.
Phil Tarrant: So it's a real process of de-risking yourself, but also giving yourself bandwidth to capitalise on opportunities if and when they arise.
Troy Phillips: You're probably reducing your LVR to below 50% if you bought at the right time, you bought 5 or 6 years ago. And when the right opportunity comes up, it's probably not this year, if you take my view, because you're gonna leave a bit for someone else. Always leave a bit on the table for someone else. You've got –
Phil Tarrant: I'm gonna call you a communist investor mate, it's like you know –
Troy Phillips: Well, I'm an entrepreneur. I mean I wouldn't say to go and put your 500 thousand into a Fintech stock cause you'll have like $5 left in the next two years. You'll have a good ride, but , no if you're a property person put it into an offset account, but have a look at a fixed rate offset account as well for your core properties that you're gonna hold for the next ten years, you know what they are. You should be looking at a fixed rate on those with a 100% offset. If you're not, go and check that out.
Phil Tarrant: So, what we just speak to a broker or something and they'll –
Troy Phillips: Speak to your broker that deals with you, if you're not happy with them, give me a call.
Phil Tarrant: There you go! Troy Phillips. He's not scared at all is he? I'll let you get away with that Troy, ‘cause I know you so well. What do you reckon Tony, is this your sort of view of it all? You're a property investor, you've got a couple of properties right?
Tony Caine: Yeah, I do. I think I, before I started this lending business I used to be a financial advisor for 8 years, after retiring Phil, and I think you've gotta take Troy’s advice but also look what your own plans are. And say, "Well okay, well what's the purpose." I think it’s important to put a purpose behind a sale or a purchase, and say "What's my plan in 10, 15, 20 years?" And say, "Okay, what's a good time, what's happening in my life, to make it make sense for me to sell that property." So where Troy's right I think ... on the flip side of that is that if you don't need the cash, it's all working well, it might sometimes can make sense to retain that if it's gonna be long term. What you wouldn't want to do is sort of what Troy's alluding to, is to not sell it now, and then wait two years when it's the worst time to sell and you've left like Troy said, some money on the table.
Phil Tarrant: So this is the perpetual question of timing the market versus time in the market. If I've got skin in the game, I've got a couple of properties in different markets in Australia. I've bought them at different points in time, I'm in the game right. So irrespective of whether property prices go up or down at least I'm in the game right. If I'm not in the game, often it's hard to get back in the game. You've missed your opportunity, if you cash out of a market and move back into a market you typically might be going in at a point in time where the market's higher than where it was when you left it. That's sort of a perpetual problem about, are you better off doing something rather than nothing, you know from your view as a financial planner, but now a lending guy, in sort of mortgages. What's your take on that.
Tony Caine: I think there are always going to be opportunities. There always has been, and there always will be. I think sometimes, and I've seen it in my own practise in previous years where people have panicked and they think that they need to be in the market. And they might pay overs. I generally believe what Troy said, you gotta have some dry powder ready to go, and there's always gonna be opportunities. It's a big country with a lot of different markets. That's what I think some people forget. They might be living in a market that's quite hot, and they're panicking. But there's always gonna be opportunities in other markets. So, yeah I think I wouldn't rush. I'd wait till the perfect time, when you felt you could get a good opportunity.
Phil Tarrant: So, Troy, you've been around a bi, you've been a property investor, you're very successful in business. I know you've got some skin in the game and some Fintech orientated business. I find that really exciting. In terms of your level of sophistication, you're a banker, with a major bank, or a couple of major banks. So you've done quite a lot right?
Troy Phillips: I've got a conservative grounding.
Phil Tarrant: You've got a conservative grounding right. You speak quite authoritatively because of your experience, and you've seen many different shapes and sizes in terms of your professional career. But, you've met a lot of different people as well, you've got a lot of experience dealing with people.
With hindsight, what you know now you know because of what you've done. Going back to the Troy Phillips back 20 years ago when you were a younger bloke and stuff. Do you believe that the experience that you've generated over those 20 years has, is fundamentally different from what you thought 20 or 25 years ago, or is there still the same as in, "I invest to make money and I'm doing it for the purpose of security and wealth creation and stuff." Or is it really evolved a lot. I know you enjoy, you have a lot of fun in it, but, what's the DNA of you these days.
Troy Phillips: I think mate, 20 years ago I was 28 or so. I had two kids, I was eating the paint off the walls. Probably the best property advice I got and I didn't take, was I was looking around to move, I wanted to move - I started with a one bedroom unit, we moved into a townhouse as the kids got older, then I bought a house. I didn't do my research, never lost money on them, cause I never sold them in the early days. I got told that gear up and for your own home, you never pay capital gains, take 20-25% more than you think you can pay, because you won't regret it one day. Cause the in costs and the ex-costs. I didn't take that advice, I was probably conservative.
But, you gotta remember, the average cost of a home in those days was probably 4 or 5 times the annual household income, I think it's 12 times now. So, I'm thinking at 12 times the annual income that's probably not great advice. I'm thinking with property investors the trade is - like any investment - there's a trade, there's a day you start and a day you stop anything. I think the trade is, if it's to get into a new home, I buy an investment property, I buy two in areas outside where I wanna be.
But I think young Australians these days, being in the property market's a great thing, and it's great that they've got the discipline to do it. But I also think that they've got to look at what they want out of their life. Wollongong is the third most expensive city in Australia if you read the Sydney Morning Herald. I wouldn't have thought that but it's got a University Campus, places like Albury- I mean maybe the big cities aren't the places to grow, bring up families, maybe the big companies aren't gonna be putting the resources into the big cities anymore, so as an investor you're looking at these areas and going "okay, they've got a good University, they've got some back office areas coming in from top 50 ASX companies."
They're the areas where there's gonna be experts coming in. Are we looking at - I think if I was looking at property I'd look at hospitals, and I’d look at medical facilities as well, because you find that a lot of people that moved up to Queensland when they retired at 60 years old, 15 years later they're realising they're coming back to Sydney and they're buying into areas around hospitals, because we've got an ageing population. You've got to take all these things into account, really in a property. I just think you've got to take a holistic view of yourself, what you want to get out of it. Where people are gonna be living in 15 and 20 years, what's gonna be important to them. We're gonna be living more upwardly. We're not gonna be living with big backyards, people are going up. Not in. And if you want to go out, you've got to look at these areas like the Wollongongs, the Alburys, these areas where they've got hospitals, they've got schools, they got Universities. I don't think you'll go wrong.
Then you've got to look at transport, you gotta look at domestic airports, you gotta look at what's happening there. I mean, the State Government is threatening to do something about housing affordability. I don't think they can. I think the only thing that ever affects housing affordability is a massive correction, but that affects a whole lot of other people on the market, so everybody is in the same boat. They're just things you've got to take - as a conservative they're the things I take into consideration. As someone who doesn't own 50 properties, and a lot of people, a lot of your listeners do, I'd be saying, you're very sophisticated, you know what you're doing. But a lot of these banks will give you an umbrella when it's 36 degrees like it is today, but when it's pissing down, they're gonna leave you with a raincoat without a hat. So be very careful the debt you carry.
Phil Tarrant: That's fair enough. And speaking about debt, bit of a personal question. So you got a couple of kids, and I know your boy's probably, what, he's 19, 20?
Troy Phillips: Twenty.
Phil Tarrant: Did you educate these guys about money, like, considering your experience in stuff, you know, you're sophisticated in business etc., but have you sort of pro-actively tried to coach them around investments and that sort of stuff? Has that happened?
Troy Phillips: I've got a 20 year old son, and a daughter who's 17. And, no, I haven't. I just think you've gotta – the best advice you can give someone is a good work ethic. Give it 80% of what you got, cause and no one gives 100%. And if you need to give it 100% sometimes, do that. Start early. Learn the value of a dollar. You've got to learn it yourself. You, know, your father doesn't know anything when you're 20, and when you're 17. But when they come to you for advice, you can help them.
I think these days you gotta be prepared - I mean there's a lot of great products out there for - this ANZ family pledge product, and a few other banks have got it where you can actually use equity on your own home. They're wonderful products. When your kids start a family, you can actually equity on your house to help them buy a house.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah.
Troy Phillips: I think that's probably the best step you can give them, and then they realise what it takes, and they will obviously pass that legacy on to their kids at one stage. But, no I don't belt away, you don't wanna be a twenty year old whose sitting on the train reading a thin review and wondering how you're gonna make your next million when you've got 25 bucks in a Westpac saver account. It just doesn't work. You read about it, and it happens to Michael J Fox in the movies, but that's not real.
Phil Tarrant: The reason why I ask that is it comes up a lot. On The Smart Property Investment Show. Where they'll talk about the reasons why they haven't invested. Right?
And there's a lot on 'gonnas' in this world. I'm 'gonna' invest, I'm 'gonna' buy a property, I'm 'gonna' buy another property, I'm 'gonna' do this ... a lot of people just never get around to it, right. And some of that pops up all the time, a lot of people frame their investment journey and property based on their experience when they're younger. Like, my family, we never spoke about money, they weren't property investors, they weren't anything. I didn't learn anything like that. I just organically worked hard and shit happens right? So this is the reason why I asked that. Because a lot of people are restricted by these preconceived ideas about property investment.
Troy Phillips: The best investment you've made and Tony's made is you've invested in yourself. Like I remember you as starting up the advisor in the early day, and yourself and Alex went out there and sold a bit of advertising, and it was [inaudible 00:14:49]. I think the investment in yourself is the best thing you can do. You don't want to have that much debt, and that much risk that you're actually in a PAYG job, and you're relying on that to service your property.
You don't want to wake up one day and be forty and have missed the opportunity to have actually had a chance – if you're an entrepreneur – to invest in yourself, ‘cause you won't then. And all you are is someone who is beholden to a massive amount of debt to a bank, riding a property market. You need to have some other string to your bow. So, if you are an entrepreneur, I always take the punt that invest in yourself first. If you're someone who is a really rigid and disciplined person, and understands the market, whether the stock market or the property market, well you back yourself in that, and that's investing yourself, I suggest. But, always have a plan B.
Tony Caine: And I'll probably just add to that Phil, what you said at the start of the Podcast, where building a team round you, I used to find that helps a lot. If you're not sure you're gonna do it, you're not gonna do it. I'd probably go and spend the money, go and see a good accountant, go and see a good advisor. And let them outsource it. Let them take charge, and do it for you to make sure it gets done.
Phil Tarrant: It's good to pay for good advice. I'm very Pro that. I guess on this similar vein, did you start investing in property when you were playing footie, or was it after?
Tony Caine: Mate, after. I got interested at playing footie. I found a lot of the guys, probably unfortunately saw a lot of the don'ts in property investment. Where they didn't actually build a team around them. They sorta went and did it themselves. And a lot of the time it was unsuccessful, cause there was a 'spruiker' involved or what have you. So, post that, once I got educated, like Troy said, I invested in myself first. I wanted to get the knowledge, and then I went to the next step and said, "Okay well I've got this amount of knowledge, who's the smartest bloke in property I can find?" So I used buyers agents, and listen I know a little bit, but this guy knows a lot. I think it's worth the investment of eight thousand dollars for him to go and spend half a million dollars for me.
Phil Tarrant: And for you, that journey from ... life after footie, investing yourself, how did invest in yourself? What's that process? What research, what education did you do, to build your knowledge, build your confidence, build your capacity to be a good investor?
Tony Caine: I just basically got every single book I could get my hands on, and read it back to front a couple of times, and, good mentors. In every book that you read it’s all about mentors, they talk about, "Why not go and use someone’s 25 years of experience and get that in two minutes."
Phil Tarrant: Mm-hmm.
Tony Caine: So I just sounded out the smartest blokes I could find. I remember being at a fundraising event one day, and sitting next to this real estate agent who had 40 properties, so, while the blokes were talking on the stage we sat down for 40 minutes on the back of a napkin and he mapped out a strategy for me. And just stuff like that, just meeting blokes who are a lot smarter than I was.
Phil Tarrant: And then you ended up with Troy Phillips.
Tony Caine: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: You could’ve done better there TC.
Tony Caine: Yeah (laughs).
Troy Phillips: But, I've got a good one on that, a bit of a straw poll one. I was just sort of working out ... trying to give the son Jack a bit of advice. I rang up one of the smartest blokes I thought I'd ever employed, and he was so smart that everything came easy to him. But he wasted a lot of his talent, and I won't say his name but I'll tell you later cause you'll know him Phil. And I rang him and I said, "Billy-Bob, what advice would you give yourself now if you were twenty years old?" And it wasn't, go to Sydney Uni, get an honours degree in economics, and top the class, and get the best graduates jobs ... it was like, I'd go and find two or three of the best mentors I could find, cause you learn more from them, than you can learn there. And the mistake I made was I thought I knew too much.
The other page to that I say with advisors and mentors, I've got this theory about the old BBQ factor. People - horse for courses - if you wouldn't have em' around to meet your wife and kids and have em' to your house for a BBQ cause they just don't cut that mustard, then you shouldn't do business, you shouldn't take advice, that's probably another thing as well. You shouldn't have to deal with people, if it's not the ying and the yang, and it doesn't work at all, black and white, then no, don't deal with them.
Phil Tarrant: So, advice as a thing, you expect the professional capabilities of the advice they're offering, but they've got to be someone that you actually enjoy spending time with as well.
Troy Phillips: Well, they've got to fit you. Your advisors that you'd like, aren't gonna be the same as Tony would get on with, or I would get on with. So find people that actually give you confidence, but know what they're doing. And you enjoy spending time with them, and enjoy conversing about your loves with, whether it be property, whether it be music or anything else or business. Makes the whole thing a lot easier.
Phil Tarrant: But that goes back to relationships in all things right?
Troy Phillips: Yeah, you're only here for a - you can only work so much, and you gotta work with people that enjoy you, you want to invest with people who enjoy your time. I've got a bunch of mates that I knock around with, we get together on a quarterly basis just to talk property right. We give each other a hard time about it -
Phil Tarrant: Who's got the most property
Troy Phillips: Who carries the most debt (laughs).
Phil Tarrant: It's a - who's got the best offset account on (laugh). I wouldn't call them mentors in any way, but I surround myself with a whole bunch of people who I enjoy spending time with. You guys included. I'm very fortunate, in the job that I do, I get to speak to blokes all day every day, and get to learn from them. It's a very fortunate position –
Troy Phillips: It's also background I've noticed. You're self-made, come from a tough background, and I find people like that because, someone had an investment property, you want to have the most property, and that drives people, but sometimes it's a strength and sometimes it can be a weakness as well. So sometimes you gotta step back, because there's a whole lot of other things you want to do in life that aren't 150 investment properties. Because you're gonna wake up one day and you're gonna be old. You can't go on that gold trip, you can't go overseas with your mates, you can't go on that surfing trip. You gotta work out what it's for. Now, part of it's for a legacy. Okay, you leave a legacy to your family, 20 years’ time they forget what you look like, and most of it's cut up fifty different ways, and no-one gives a rats. Sometimes on the way through have a stop and listen to the music.
Phil Tarrant: Very philosophical isn't it.
Troy Phillips: But it's true. Absolutely true, you don't want to wake up – we see it all the time – we get property investors on the show and they're 100% property investment. They live and breathe it, and that's cool, that's good, and for many people it's a hobby. I view property investment as a business and in business I like to be the best I possibly can be. I try and drive it pretty hard. But it's not all consuming. The reason why I use Tony a lot of advisors, is that I don't want to be walking around doing, looking at properties on the weekend, I don't wanna be dealing with banks on finance, I don't wanna be worrying about compliance around my taxation. I want someone else to sort that out for me, so I can spend time with my family right. That's a choice that I get to make. It's balance.
Tony Caine: Mate, you're absolutely right, I think sometimes where people get lost – and I found this in the practise – and talking to hundreds and hundreds of clients about, "I want to invest, I need eight properties so I can retire in eleven years and five months and two days." Then they get there, and then they're a bit lost and sort of empty. I used to talk to the clients about this all the time.
Invest so you can do what you want to do for a living. Not so much just for retirement, like Troy said. The strategy I've always taken with myself, and I've got two young kids, is where my property investment strategy is to create wealth. So then I can go and start businesses, do things, and take opportunities that I'd like to take, as opposed to just working towards a flat dead retirement date, which doesn't get me too excited.
Phil Tarrant: It gives you choice.
Tony Caine: Absolutely.
Phil Tarrant: Life's about options.
Troy Phillips: Yeah, and I think on the property call, my parting word to an investor at the moment who's holding a lot of property is, cull your bottom 20%. Hey, you might miss out, but if you've got this property you got there that you know are fully priced or areas you're not sure about now, you know what, get out. Look at Karratha. There's people there – that joint’s like herpes at the moment.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah.
Troy Phillips: You're never getting rid of it.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah (laugh). That's why I bring you on the show Troy.
Troy Phillips: Aww thanks.
Phil Tarrant: Brilliant (laughs). I'm gonna leave it there, that's good. I'm, mate, look, Troy, Tony, thanks for coming in guys. It's really good.
Tony Caine: Thanks for having us.
Troy Phillips: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Phil Tarrant: We've sort of jumped around a bit but I like the sort of philosophical outlook on why we're doing this. We all enjoy our jobs. We're good at our jobs, and we enjoy building businesses and all that sort of stuff. We enjoy building wealth, but we enjoy the human element. Mainly.
Troy Phillips: Yeah. You gotta call it as it is and give a bit of yourself back and if anybody gets anything out of it, a lot of people won't agree but that's fine. If you're taking anything from it. Well done if you don't. I respect that.
Phil Tarrant: That's the way it is.
Troy Phillips: Thank you.
Phil Tarrant: Thanks for tuning in everyone. Yeah good one, we'll get you guys back on. A couple things I'd take out of this Podcast. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the journey. You know, the destination is important. But you gotta enjoy getting there. That's what Tony said, invest in yourself. You know, Troy, I think your sage words around making sure that you build your own capabilities so you can go and make decisions you need to make, is key. But I guess on a more practical front, getting out when you can and catching up. Given your choice or even looking at ways in which you can maybe change some of your lending requirements or situations, and look at locking in stuff, and get some certainty in your finances is good.
Remember to check out SmartPropertyInvestment.Com.au. We're also on all the social stuff, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn. You can follow me @PhillipTarrant. If you've got any questions for me, or if you want to come on the show, [email protected] We'll keep rising through the ranks of iTunes, so please keep those reviews coming. 5 stars are great. We do appreciate you leaving a couple of words there as well. The more people who we can get involved in this community the more sophisticated and smarter investors we have. If you want to know anything about these guys, Tony, what's your website mate?
Tony Caine: So it's StandardLending.com.au.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, Troy, what are you?
Troy Phillips: FirstPointMortgageBrokers.com.au
Phil Tarrant: Nice one. You're sort of Australia wide? I know you're based [crosstalk 00:23:29]east coast.
Troy Phillips: East Coast. East Coast of Australia.
Phil Tarrant: Good one.
Troy Phillips: If you're in WA give us a call, I get over there a bit anyway.
Phil Tarrant: Nice one. All right. Thanks guys, and thanks for listening, we'll see you next week.