RBA rings alarm on high debt levels
Risks to financial stability could be building as house prices and debt levels keep rising, the Reserve Bank has caution...
Jetlee Ganado said he considers himself a “lazy” investor who isn’t very good with numbers. That’s why he puts his faith in a team to take care of all the nitty-gritty details.
In this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show, Jetlee is in the studio to share his refreshing approach to property investment and his thoughts on the benefits of working with a financial team.
He joins host Phil Tarrant and guest co-host Aleks Vickovich to discuss the importance of self-funded retirement, why there’s no excuse for not being educated about finance and how Jetlee balances his love of spending money with his understanding of saving for the future.
Tune in now to hear all of this and much, much more in this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show!
Did you like this episode? Show your support by rating us on iTunes (The Smart Property Investment Show) and by liking and following Smart Property Investment on social media: Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. If you have any questions about what you heard today, any topics of interest you have in mind, or if you’d like to lend your voice to the show, email [email protected] for more insight!
Phil Tarrant: Good day, everyone. Phil Tarrant here. I'm the host of The Smart Property Investment Show. Thanks for tuning in. It's always good to have you with us. I'm joined by maybe semi-regular recognisable voice, a guest co-host, Alex Vickovich. How you going?
Aleks: G’day, Phil. I'm well mate. And it's a shame that it's a podcast because if they could see you in this resplendent royal blue suit, then I'm sure people would be having a very good time.
Phil Tarrant: This is why it works. And if you want to go down that path and start heckling me from the get go, I am more than happy to play that game. For those of you who aren't familiar with Aleks, Aleks heads up the editorial across all of our wealth products here at Momentum Media. What does that mean? He looks after all the content and our brands and products associated with wealth management, financial planning, innovation in wealth, funds management, superannuation, that sort of stuff. Fair description?
Aleks: Yeah, absolutely.
Phil Tarrant: That's good. The good thing to like about Aleks, and there's not a lot, but one of them is his passion as a journalist and his depth of knowledge in the markets that he works with, and so he always lends a voice towards asset classes that we don't traditionally cover or people who traditionally sort of invest in asset classes that you look after, and they're probably investors. It's good to get a bit of balance. So thanks for joining us.
Aleks: Thanks for having me.
Phil Tarrant: Our guest today is someone who's been hounding me for years to come on the show. No, he's not. He's a big fan of the show. I think he's listened to pretty much every single episode. It's someone I know quite well as a friend. But he is also a property investor. So I've asked him to come on and have a chat to us today just to really share his views towards property investment. I apologise in advance that if he does rant, just hold with him and I guess he'll probably get to a point somewhere along there, but Jetlee Ganado, how are you going?
Jetlee: Thanks for having me, Phil.
Phil Tarrant: It's good to have you here. What do you know about property?
Jetlee: Not much. I guess today it's great to be here. And I think I guess what I wanted to put across was how important it is to have really good people around you, and essentially use the skills of those really good people around you to help you prosper in the future.
Phil Tarrant: So are you a lazy property investor?
Jetlee: Absolutely, absolutely. I was actually just catching up on one of your other podcasts in the car while I was waiting for the time, and I think one of the quotes during it was "You must know your numbers." I was just shaking my head in the car. I know next to nothing about my numbers, and I guess my point is that I feel comfortable not knowing the numbers because I have such good people around me. I'm pretty lucky where my wife is an absolutely amazing woman. She's really intelligent, and I have all the faith in her that she's doing the right thing by us and the family. But then also, I've got some great friends in the industry and I'm part of a very select group of golf four individuals that we get together and we network, and I'm able to essentially leverage off their chosen professions, but also their passion around property investment. But I also know that specific group of individuals extremely ethical in the way they conduct their own businesses. So that gives me a lot of confidence to be able to put my faith and my hard-earned dollars into their decisions and the people they refer me to so that I can sleep at night knowing that I'm doing the right thing for my family and my kids in the future.
Phil Tarrant: So you're like that fish that follows a shark around underneath that ... Or what is it, an Ozzpecker on a -
Aleks: You've been watching too much David Attenborough recently.
Jetlee: They called remoras, hang around a shark and -
Phil Tarrant: And I find your attitude to property investment quite refreshing, as in ... And we'll get into why you invest in property. But the fact that you've made a deliberate mental decision to say, "I want to do this, and there's reasons why I want to do it. But I've got confidence in people around me to take me on that journey." And for a lot of people, that wouldn't work, right? Like, they'd be so scared about getting ripped off or things not going right, but you have absolute confidence that you'll have to use professionals grow your portfolio.
Aleks: Was it a deliberate decision, Jetlee? You said you kind of have this forum. You're not naturally a numbers guy. Certainly, I'm not a numbers guy either unless we're talking about political donations and so on. But it's really interesting to say you're not a natural numbers guy, but you have this forum of people that you trust. Was it hanging out with those guys, that circle of trust, that led you to property investment, or did you go in there saying, "I want to be one of them to seek out some advice?"
Phil Tarrant: That's a good question.
Jetlee: Well, I did 12 years in the navy from 18 and a half until I got out in October 2012. And I learned a lot of lessons about money that way. And when I got out of the navy, I didn't have any debt. But all I had paid off was my car and a $15,000 boat. And then I met my now wife, and thank her for everything we have at the moment because otherwise I'd probably just be still living in that kind of lifestyle, not really putting too much into the future.
I guess one of the lucky positions I'm in is that from my time in the defence force, I've got a bit of a cushion there, and I've probably got a little bit more in super than the average 35 year old. And I think with that there, that's like, "Well, that's enough for me" because I'm a pretty simple bloke. I'm happy to holiday in coastal areas. I don't really want anything too fancy. I don't need a big mansion. But as you get older, sort of things change, and I didn't really take care of myself in those years as I should. So now I'm sort of just trying to ... Well, we are in the family, just trying to get some better processes in place. And that basically started the moment I got out of the navy and I realised, "Okay, it's time to really get things going and really start," and my wife definitely gave me the poke there, and I still thank her every day.
Phil Tarrant: So just quickly. Let's have a quick chat about your portfolio. So how many ... I won't challenge you on the numbers, mate. But how many properties do you ... So you have a principal place of residence, I know that.
Jetlee: Yeah. We're PPR in Cronulla at the moment. So I got out of the navy. We bought a two-bedroom unit on Cronulla Road, and we lived in that and renovated. So it was a pretty whirlwind couple of years. So we bought, renno'ed while we lived in there. And then while I was on my box party, actually, very important day, my wife went and had a look at the three-bedroom unit we now live in. So that was in ... it was just before ... she was pregnant with Olive, so it was pretty busy time.
And we actually sold the two-bedroom unit for a price, and ... just purchase price that we sold that for 581 and then bought the three-bedroom unit around the corner and in a better position for 582. And that wasn't with a buyer's agent or anything. It was through a real estate agent. It was just absolute screaming bargain of the century, and then two weeks later, the place across the hall sold for 612 or 615 or something like that. So then we put a few thousand dollars into renovations back then, and then since we've actually had a lock evaluation of about $900,000, which was our last one. So we've done pretty good in the last just on that place. Then as a result of that, we ... well, we want to invest, and I mentioned I've got some pretty good friends in the business. One of my good friends is a buyer's agent, so we said "This is what we want to do." He's like "Oh, I've got this place up there." Still very, like, I'm a tentative kind of person when it comes to these big decisions. But once again, had all the faith in the world. Bought Booval for 180, 182.
Phil Tarrant: Where's that, sorry?
Jetlee: North Booval.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Jetlee: I've been sort of around that Ipswich area, around there. 182. That was pretty ... that did really well in six months. It was a little bit of a spike. So then we refinanced there and then we've got a, I think it's a 422, I think in Red Bank Plains, and that's pretty much where we sit at the moment. We refinanced recently to get ourselves in a position to buy ... We've actually just recently just taken a point to say, "Well, hang on. We've gone into this, but we've gone in without a plan," and I don't know whether this is the military in me, but I really don't like do anything without a bit of a serious plan. But had everybody around us at the time investing, and we're like "They're all doing it. It seems like a good idea," and we wanted to make sure we're putting our money somewhere, but we've got to the stage where kind of now that we've got some kids, and kids weren't always on the cards, but they are now and we've sort of had to change our strategy a little bit to sort of help us through that process. We've sought the services of financial advisors, and we're really close with the mortgage broker as well, who we're working hard at the moment.
Aleks: Just in terms of that initial transition that you made in Cronulla. Essentially, I guess from the way you outlined it, you got a better place for pretty much the same price.
Aleks: Do you, reflecting on that, put it down to kind of dumb luck or were there things that your wife particularly was doing from a research side that made that such a smooth transition for you?
Jetlee: Yes. At that stage, we weren't using the services of an official buyer's agent. We had someone that was really interested in that, and I think that interest rubbed off on the wife, so we were able to look in the right areas and that kind of thing. And I think this, though, there was definitely an element of luck involved. Like the lady we bought the house off wanted to move back to Thailand. Had no reason to stay in Australia. Just happened to like the story, we were getting married at the time, we had a baby ... we'd just been married, got a baby on the way. And she's like "Yep. No worries." So it was all pretty exciting. Yeah, that was just a bit of good luck and good time, but just acting and having your finances also-
Phil Tarrant: You make your own luck, right?
Jetlee: You do. And that why ... I guess the thing is that we had all our finances all in a row, and it was all ready to go, pre-approved so that we could say, "Okay, no worries. Offers from 550, here you go. This is what we're doing, 582," so it was a decent enough jump over the asking price and that was enough for her. Yep, no worries, we'll take it.
Aleks: So being finance ready – it's key.
Jetlee: Yeah, being finance ready, absolutely.
Phil Tarrant: I want to ask you why you invest in property. But before I do so, you've done something which a lot of property investors don't do, and that is they seek the services of a financial planner or financial advisor. A lot of probably investors go, "Don't need a financial advisor because I want to invest in property, and therefore I don't need someone telling me that I need to be doing XYZ in terms of portfolio diversification, portfolio build, or all that sort of stuff." Do you see much, Alex, people making that shift from property to seeing a financial advisor? Because I know when we had you on the show last time, we spoke a little bit about this, whereas financial planners typically wouldn't proactively encourage property as part of a portfolio build. They would probably push people down other asset classes. What's your view?
Aleks: Yeah, look. I think it's not that they don't ... and I have a really good insight. I know tens of thousands of financial advisors in Australia. I think it's not that they discourage it from an investment point of view. It's simply that they're not incentivised to give advice around it. I think it's more so that a lot of hardcore property investors, they do seek advice out in certain places, but most of them have made a fairly strong decision, you know, listening over your podcasts that property bricks and mortar's where they want to be, either because they understand it or because they think it's the long-term play that they want to make.
So I think that a lot of it comes from the consumer demand. There's isn't that sort of gap ... We're not seeing a lot of property investors going to financial advisors and looking to broaden their portfolios, particularly not sort of most prolific property investors. But having said that, financial advisers do need to understand that property is probably the most sought ... or it is the most sought after asset class from investors in Australia. So I think they would like to be able to do more in that place. There's some regulatory hurdles to stop them from doing that. PI insurance and other things for them that stop that from being really easy. A good advisor has an understanding that this is something that matters to families, that matters to clients. So I would advise them to sort of say to their advisor, property's non-negotiable and what else can we talk about?
Phil Tarrant: But any good financial advisor would be recommending a diversified portfolio base, wouldn't they?
Aleks: Yeah, absolutely. I think they would talk about direct property. The issue for them is that legally they can't make any kind of recommendation around an actual property. So that opens up huge opportunities for buyers, agents, and other advice-givers that are out there who aren't regulated financial advisors. So it's a bit of weird system where, arguably, your investment experts are not allowed to touch financial advice. And the area of property investment advice, many of whom are really awesome and I'm sure give great advice, but it's an unregulated space. So it's a little bit of an unusual situation in terms of how the law works.
Phil Tarrant: You talked about direct property. So direct property is that you go and buy the title, etc. So you could invest in property in other ways. Outside of being direct. There's some fractional stuff these days.
Aleks: Yeah, absolutely. There's this equity crowd funding, so investing in small fractional shares in property is really big overseas. It hasn't fully come here yet because equity crowdfunding is still basically illegal in Australia. There is something before Parliament at the moment on that front that I think will have big implications for property. But the more obvious thing that a financial advisor will say to you if you do want exposure to properties to invest in a REIT, in a real estate investment trust or some kind of managed fund that invests in property, often commercial property. That's a very different thing, though, to being a bricks and mortar property investor.
Phil Tarrant: Most REITs are commercial? All REITs are commercial?
Aleks: No, some of them are residential as well. The big point is you don't own ... you just own an exposure to that fund. The fund manager holds the assets, he holds the custody, and you get dividends. So it's very different to having an actual, owning a property or owning half a property.
Phil Tarrant: And I think that's the problem that a lot of people struggle with. They think to invest in property, they like the idea of bricks and mortar, but they think that they need to have ownership of that bricks and mortar. For people to make that additional step to say, "I want exposure to property" meaning that I am in a market and I can benefit on market movements and obviously want market movements to go up, but there are other options for them invest in property outside of directly owning the asset themselves. So speak to their financial advisor.
Aleks: Yeah, absolutely. And increasingly with crowdfunding, there's really interesting ways of doing that. So one group out there is Domacom, which is set up as a managed investment scheme, but they basically allow fractional shares in a property through their fund. And then there's BRICKX as well. And these are the only two guys, I think. There may be others out there, and feel free to get in touch if you are doing this and listening. But they're actually selling the bricks themselves in a way of kind of crowdfunding a property purchase. So really interesting movements in that space. For anyone who loves property but doesn't necessarily want to commit to the whole buy, I think crowdfunding will increasingly be a way of doing that, but we're not quite there yet.
Phil Tarrant: Interesting. Good insights. So why do you invest in property, Jetlee? Other than all your mates were doing it? Which, by the way, is a lot of people's reason when they get going. Everyone else is doing it. You probably hear them making heaps or money or heaps of equity.
Jetlee: I guess based on the way I see my professional life going is I'm never going to get rich working for someone else-
Phil Tarrant: What do you do now? What's your job?
Jetlee: I'm in sales for a pharmaceutical company. My wife has grand plans later on in life to be the director of her business, so that's one thing we're going to invest in later on in the future. But I have different goals in life. For me, I need to make sure my money is working for me somewhere else, and I think it's important that we as Australians do whatever we can so that we're as close to self-funded retirees as possible. So, I guess I had mentioned my super already, but that's only one part of the picture for me because I'm no longer in the navy, and that's not going to keep growing at the same rate as what it would be if I'd stayed in there, so I want to make sure that I've got time to play with my kids when they're ... or my grandkids if they so decide. And I just want to be comfortable, but I kind of want that sense of satisfaction when I get older that I've done it under my own steam and I haven't needed too much help from the general public.
Phil Tarrant: So you want to be an asset to the nation rather than a cost centre?
Jetlee: Than a burden. Yeah. That's right. I think that's very important. There's a lot of talk about different generations, but I think you just got to make the right decisions now and look to the future to ... And you got to get through periods of sacrifice. You've got to go through there's other periods, sorry, where you feel like you've got everything that you need and a little bit extra.
Phil Tarrant: Feast and famine.
Jetlee: That's exactly right. That's one of the reasons I think why we've probably gone to a financial advisor now is because my wife and I have gone through a period of where we feel like we've got heaps, and we've kind of lost our way a bit in terms of saving and putting that away for the future. But just getting back to the financial advice, they provide more services than just advice around shares and that kind of thing. A lot of these guys, and I know the guy we use, can coach you around how you manage your internal funds. There's apps to help you there.
Make your processes more streamlined so you can see how much you've got for ... you're saving for a boat or you're going on the holidays, and for a lot of people they don't need that, but for people like my wife and I who just love to spend and spend whenever we feel like it, then tools like that are really helping us have the fun but then invest in the future at the same time. And I think, yeah it might cost a few grand now for that service, but then that's going to pay itself off in probably a few years and you won't even think about what you've spent there. I wouldn't have gone down that path had it not been for my buyer's agent, Paul, no way because but the relationships that guys like Paul at Pure Property have, it just opens your eyes up to what the opportunities are out there for you. For a bloke like me that I don't want to sit there, and I don't want to stew over the numbers. I don't want to have the relationships with all the real estate agents in all the areas where I think's going to be.
Phil Tarrant: You just want the benefits of all the hard work?
Phil Tarrant: That's fine.
Jetlee: But that's why these guys provide services is to help blokes like me get ahead with what I've got.
Aleks: I'm interested in that generational thing that you mentioned, that perhaps there's unwillingness among some, particularly younger Aussies, maybe to have any sort of sacrifice. Front page of the Sydney Morning Herald a few weeks ago was a Generation Y young person, and the quote on the front page was "How are we meant to compete against people with savings?" There's this deep kind of entitlement that "We shouldn't have to save in order to own a property." And the Sydney Morning Herald was very supportive of this person, saying this is shocking, outrageous that we expect these poor people to save. So you say that you and your wife are naturally spenders, and yet you have gone through this process of discipline and at times sacrifice and you made that initial purchase and you've expanded from there. How were you able to temper that natural love of spending that I guess all of us young Aussies have and want to enjoy ... How did you kind of get that under control when you had to?
Jetlee: It's self-control, really, isn't it? If I want something, I can't expect for someone to just hand it to me on a plate. You've got to work for these things. And sometimes if it's not hard, sometimes it's not worth doing. And look, at the moment I struggle because I haven't got a boat. And that's a first-world problem, but it's a real passion of mine. But that's something that you've got to be willing to sacrifice. And I think of a smashed avocado that was talked about a lot on a recent podcast – 25 dollars for avocado on toast or something like that.
Phil Tarrant: And that's fine...
Aleks: I think you want to have a few investments in some avocado farms, but I'm still looking into that, mate.
Jetlee: But I guess the other thing is that that living, investing where you live ... a lot of these things I've picked up off your show. Had I known and understood a little bit more about that, then I probably would have started earlier, and I guess that's the sacrifice.
Phil Tarrant: If you were back in the navy, would you tell all of your colleagues ... What do you ... it's not colleagues in the navy ... your ...
Jetlee: No, they're my oppos.
Phil Tarrant: Your oppos.
Jetlee: You're opposite numbers. No, that's a bit Russian, mate.
Phil Tarrant: If you go back there, would you be saying "You got to listen to stuff like this podcast." Do you think the navy equipped you or your peer group equipped you to know anything about money because it sounds like you probably didn't use your money as well as what you could have.
Jetlee: Oh, absolutely did not. Put my hand up and say I definitely didn't do that.
Phil Tarrant: Reckon most guys do that, then?
Jetlee: I think ... The navy's just another cross section of society. I don't think it's a defence force's business to be stepping in to try and educate its sailors. It's a job. It's a decision they make. They get in the navy, and that's how they earn their money. I think what's different now than what it was when I joined is just how easy it is to get good quality information and how quickly it is ... how easy it is to go through vast amounts of information. I'm lucky that I spend a lot of time in the car. So the reason why I listen to every single one of your podcasts is purely for the fact that I spend a lot of time in the car. Other people may spend time on the train so they can do that there. I guess the prevalence of buyer's agents and other services around that, it's a little bit more accessible -
Phil Tarrant: So you've deliberately made a decision to invest in your education.
Jetlee: Yeah, absolutely because it's in a format that...
Phil Tarrant: Works for you.
Jetlee: ...resonates with me and works in with my lifestyle. I used go to sea for months on end without internet. When I was 19, 20 years old. There was none of that there. So trying to ... You'd have to take books to sea or you'd have to try to get your hands on newspapers or you'd have to just rely on what one of your mates said down the mess, and it was a bit trickier for me then. I was a little bit more adverse to responsibility when I was a little bit younger, and I just love to be able to drive around in a camper van and go surfing when I had my days off and not have to worry about it. We live in a different time now, and I think for the access that your typical 19 year old has to information that guys like yourselves are providing to Australia is just completely different to what it was when I was around.
Phil Tarrant: So what you're saying ... picking up on your point is there is no excuse for Gen Y and millennials not to be educated about how they can realise investment in property, investment in shares or other ... You're a Gen Y, aren't you a Gen Y?
Jetlee: Yeah, I think I do -
Phil Tarrant: You got a mind of a baby boomer. What’s -
Jetlee: Lot of steaks and a lot of bottles of wine, you know?
Phil Tarrant: What's the generation before baby boomers?
Aleks: X? No before. The golden generation, I think.
Phil Tarrant: You got the mindset of golden... The Depression...
Aleks: The Second World War generation. I like those guys.
Phil Tarrant: But you're sort of juxtaposed between...
Aleks: All right.
Phil Tarrant: You like?
Aleks: I can see the heckling coming back for me again.
Phil Tarrant: Here we go. For a guy. You're a talented bloke, you're good at your job, and all that kind of stuff. And you don't own any property.
Phil Tarrant: No. You're twenty...
Phil Tarrant: So nearly 30. So you're going to have to get responsible pretty soon, right?
Aleks: Yeah, as soon as I get out of credit card debt, I'm going to seriously look at the property investment, and I'll be talking to some of your listeners about that.
Phil Tarrant: Do you and your peer group sit around complaining about how the world is today? Or do you reckon ... Knowing what you know and you live and breathe investment all day, every day. You've probably got one of the best jobs in Australia to get educated on how to create wealth through investing, whether it's through bond shares, whatever or property. Do you sit around with your mates and talk about how hard it is to get on the property ladder? How hard it is? How impossible it is with your generation to get ahead? Or do you think that's all a lot of bullshit?
Aleks: I don't personally, but certainly I see it. I think that would be the prevalent view. And you can just see that in the politics, right? In terms of, we've got Barnaby Joyce, deputy Prime Minister, saying if you can't afford to live in Sydney, eff off to the bush. But there's a lot of economic sense to what he's saying, but he was pilloried for it. And I think there is a cultural view that we should be able to enjoy the good life without the sort of sacrifices that Jetlee's talking about. So that's interesting. For me personally, I think it's probably just a lack of discipline. And also if you write about investment all day long and you write about some of the stuff that the major banks and financial institutions are up to all the time, you get a bit turned off the whole thing. Maybe direct property is a way of avoiding some of the conflicts of interest and things that do go on.
Phil Tarrant: So the question is do you feel that everyone of your generation, if they have a job and they can show a bank that they're a responsible salary earning sort of person, can invest in property?
Aleks: Yeah, sure. I think that people can. But it does take ... I think the first step is savings. And the first step is that personal commitment to sacrifice and getting into a better position. And I think Jetlee's totally right. It does come down to education, whether that's listening to The Smart Property Investment Show or whatever that might be. But there aren't a lot of people ... With my readership, we just did a survey of financial advisors across the country. 85% of them said that they would be willing to go into a high school, for example. And both of you are recent parents, so it's probably something you are passionate about.
But 85% of them said they'd be willing to go into their local high school and teach financial literacy for free. Now the government and the teachers unions and the department of education doesn't allow them to do that because they don't want private sector people who they think are a little bit crooked because of a perception they have coming in and teaching the kids. And I think that's one of the problems that lead to this. Like certainly it anything not be the navy's job, but unless you've got parents or a family environment that teaches you about investment and business, you miss out on it because it's not being taught in schools. And it's not being taught in schools on purpose. I mean, there's plenty of people who want to go and teach this stuff, and they're actually not allowed to go in there. So I think that would be ... Getting this sort of information down to young kids ... Start to think about saving, start to think about investment. I think that would be really helpful.
Jetlee: I'd put it to you, and I'm a parent. I'd put it to you that it's the parents' job. You see it in the media all the time that all the teachers aren't doing this and the schools are going bad. The question is what are you doing as a parent to help you try and set your kids up now?
Phil Tarrant: My response to that would be that a lot of people, adults, can't manage their own finances. I'm not going to say most, but a lot of lot people that can't... It's out of control.
Aleks: If you look at household and personal debt, I mean the numbers are just – it is most.
Phil Tarrant: It is most. Most people, they're in negative equity in their life, right? They owe more money than what they're ever going to, got the capacity to repay at any point in time without liquidating everything. That's bad. That's bad financial management, right? A lot of people get into credit card debt, and there's a huge business around debt consolidation of people who get umpteen store cards, credit cards, car financing, leases, whatever it is. And then they're stuck and they can't get out of it, and they're in a lot of trouble. A lot people go bankrupt as a result of it. So for parents to be providing financial literacy, I think most probably aren't a good educator to do it.
Jetlee: I look back at my upbringing. I wasn't taught about money. I didn't even ... I just knew we didn't have a lot of it. And this is one of my other personal faults is I was taught about money. So I could've done a basic spreadsheet by the time I was 13 if those applications were around, I could've done it and I could've been able to run a very basic household at that age. I just chose not to do it once I was earning my own money, and that's where I failed myself. So there's an element of personal responsibility as well. It's a double-edged sword, but there's the ... I often wonder when people go attacking a curriculum or whether they go attacking teachers, it's like, well it's very multifaceted.
Aleks: Yeah, having said that, letting people who do know, who are property investors, who are good citizens and are interested and simply want to go in and give their time for free, I think that's a pretty easy solution to the problem is allowing these people... This is something the parents are generally supportive of, and the government and teachers and unions and so on are not. But you make a really good point about personal ... It's the way you're raised, and there's a personal responsibility. Really interesting thing listening to these podcasts, The Smart Property Investment Show, is that a lot of the guests, I think, share that same story. They say that they're – either the children of small business people or there's been some sort of exposure to that world. I think that's really interesting, so the question is how you can take this content and take it to people who aren't naturally that way.
Phil Tarrant: Now here's an idea for you, Aleks. Why don't you speak to your mates, all those lobby groups down in Canberra trying to influence the way in which we shape legislation, and say "Get The Smart Property Investment Show as part of school curriculum for all high school students," and make it HSC thing. Do that. Here you go. Fix -
Jetlee: I'd sign that petition.
Phil Tarrant: Keep this bloke off the airwaves -
Aleks: Phil Tarrant for prime minister.
Phil Tarrant: You wouldn't want to do that to the nation. But Jetlee, we're running out of time, but I want to finish up with this. For someone who... I think you've been very open and frank about your view towards investment. I found it quite refreshing, whether it's wrong or right, whether everyone should see the world the way that you see the world. That's largely irrelevant. People get to make their own choice. But for someone who is investing in their financial literacy and education and has listened to pretty much every Smart Property Investment Show podcast, if there was three things, if you were going to speak to someone at a pub and say, "You should listen to this podcast," what would be the three things, the three main common themes that you would tell that person about what this show is about? So how would you summarise what we do and the knowledge it gives you?
Jetlee: That's good. I reckon, the first thing I noticed is the awareness around what services are available for a property investor and what those services will provide you. So in terms of things like what property managers do and how they can help you. What financial advisors do. What a buyer's agent does. How important it is to find good accountant that is a property investor himself. How important all those kinds of things are. What that will do is then arm you with a knowledge as to what kind of services you probably need because you'll need to do a self-assessment as to what kind of knowledge you do have. Where your deficiencies are, go and get someone else to do it for you. Because I haven't got any bad investment stories at this stage, and I've heard some for the guys who have gone out there and done the noble thing and tried to forge head themselves. I think that's great.
The second thing is just as soon as you get this kind of information, the second thing is start saving now so that you can get your foot in the door somewhere. Doesn't have to be where you want to live, like we've heard so many times on your podcast. But it's about just getting that foot in the door.
And then the third thing would be just…don't worry about it. Really, if you're saving and you're talking to the right people, then the rest of it's going to take care of itself.
Phil Tarrant: Just go ahead and do it. Don't procrastinate
Jetlee: Yeah, just get out there and get out there and get it done because this day and age, there's enough information for you to this day and age, so easy to get that there's going to be someone that can give you a hand if you get yourself in a position where you don't feel like you can navigate.
And I guess the fourth thing, I'd just hand them one of Paul's cards and say, "Go and sit down with him."
Phil Tarrant: Hey, no plugs.
Jetlee: No plugs? No no plugs for Paul the Pure Property man.
Aleks: Turn into Alan Jones, here.
Jetlee: That's pretty much it for me. Big thanks for everything you've done in terms of putting all your podcasts together an really creating a good central hub for property investors, but also...
Phil Tarrant: We said no plugs, Jetlee.
Jetlee: ...but also service providers in general. And I mentioned a few of the service providers. But I think it's a great forum for people to educate themselves and therefore be in a position to make a good, educated decision.
Phil Tarrant: In us doing our job, I don't want anyone saying, "I made a bad investment decision because I didn't have the knowledge about it." I don't think, and you probably agree with this, there's no excuse for not being knowledgeable. Now, you don't have to be an absolute expert on everything, but if you know you have a deficiency or something, as you pointed out, or you don't have the inclination or time or you don't really want to do it, there's no excuse for not knowing. You can find someone to give you that information and help you make good decision. And whether it's property or any other asset class.
Aleks: It's interesting that you mention experts. I think the real strength of this show and kind of where media's going in general is that peer-to-peer knowledge, and I think that's a real strength. People who are not pretending to be experts or marketing themselves as experts necessarily, but simply sharing their story and having an honest discussion. I think that's the way that knowledge and media is certainly going in general because a lot of the time, people posing as experts have got ulterior motives, right?
Phil Tarrant: Their own agendas, right?
Phil Tarrant: I've got literally hundreds of people that want to come on this show who are all an expert in some way or another, and...
Aleks: And most of them are probably extremely genuine.
Phil Tarrant: Absolutely, absolutely. But this is about stories, like your story, and everyone's story different. Everyone's reason for investing in property is different. Everyone's purpose in doing it. Some people do it because they like the game. I like the game. I like to win a lot and be good at it. But I'm also doing this for wealth creation. Don't want to be having a worse retirement than what I have in professional life. And you, Aleks, probably start saving a bit, I reckon.
Aleks: Yeah, I'll get a move on, mate.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah. Cashing out. You're going to hit that big 3-0 soon, mate, and you're going to be ... But is wasn't too late for you. When did you start? Just -
Jetlee: Made the decision to get out of the navy at 29. My official discharge date was the day before my 30th. So I started my 30s as a-
Phil Tarrant: Time to get serious.
Jetlee: Yeah. It's when I realised I'm probably going to have kids and I'm probably going to get married. Now's the time. I didn't really want to be leaving them on the wall. So I kind of take my hat off to all the sailors out there that do that and thank them kindly for their service for continuing service. I think that's amazing for those guys. But yeah, look 30, I've done it. What's in the past is in the past. You leave it there. I was lucky that I still have a little bit of investment from that time. I guess I'll still in a pretty good spot.
Phil Tarrant: And I think this is probably the point I'll finish off on in that 30 for a lot of people, there we go "It's so late to be starting to think about your financial future." We get people on the show here who are 18, 19, 20 years old making thirty-something thousand dollars a year who are already investing in property, and it might be because they love it or it's some sort of family aptitude towards it, all the way to through people like yourself starting investing 30. I started investing probably five years after you at 35, which some people would think was really late. But then you speak to people who are in their 50s who are going "Oh, money just starting to invest now." And that's when a lot of people have that “oh shit” moment. "I'm getting old and I don't have enough in my super, and I'm thinking 15, 20 years ahead when I retire I'm going to be living on half or a third or a quarter of the salary that I'm earning right now." So it's never too late to start thinking about your financial future. If you can do it earlier, great. I wish I'd started investing 15 years ago because my portfolio would be considerably larger what it is today. But I lost that against I had a pretty good 20s. I'm not going to complain -
Jetlee: Same. I haven't got a dollar to show for it.
Phil Tarrant: You as well. You're on a backside of probably a good 20s where you've gone out and you've done some cool stuff, right? You've spent the last year or so in the States through the Trump campaign and doing all this stuff.
Aleks: Sure. Yeah, travelled some places, racked up some debt.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah, it's the right time.
Aleks: It is. I'll cut out the avocado toast, and then this time next year, I'll be back. I'll be able to be a guest.
Phil Tarrant: There we go I like it. Let's finish with that. So thanks for tuning in, everyone. Remember to leave those five star rank ... Have you given us a five star ranking?
Jetlee: Oh, I have. Absolutely.
Phil Tarrant: Good. Thank you. But please keep them coming on iTunes because it helps lift our ranking so more people will listen to us. There's literally, it is now a very, very large community of like-minded people listening to this show. So I do thank you for tuning in, and I hope we are providing value, and we'll continue to do our best to maintain that. Remember to check out smartpropertyinvestment.com.au. There's heaps of stories there daily about most things about property investment. You can follow us on all the social stuff. You can follow me if you like @PhillipTarrant. If you'd like to get on the show, I'm always keen to hear from investors with a story. You can email [email protected], and we'll be back again next week. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Bye.