It's never too late to start investing in property. Here's why!
1 minute read

It's never too late to start investing in property. Here's why!

It's never too late to start investing in property. Here's why!

by Demii Kalavritinos | November 30, 2017 | 1 minute read

Husband and wife team, Simon and Vanessa Refalo, come on the show to discuss how they started their journey in property investing late, the mistakes they made along the way, and how the idea of changing their mindset got them on the right track to success.

Simon and Vanessa Refalo, investors

Vanessa describes the catalyst pushing them towards property investing, the nerve-racking moment leading up to their first purchase, as well as the challenges they faced with negative gearing before succeeding in the property game.

Simon reveals what happened after they decided to sell each of their living properties, the process they underwent to buy their first investment property as well as their experiences with accountants and buying agents.

They will also discuss the buffer they gave themselves to start investing again, why they had an exit strategy for their strata investment and their goals for the future.


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If you liked this episode, show your support by rating us or leaving a review on iTunes (The Smart Property Investment Show) and by following Smart Property Investment on social media: FacebookTwitter and LinkedIn. If you have any questions about what you heard today, any topics of interest you have in mind, or if you’d like to lend your voice to the show, email [email protected] for more insights!



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Announcer: Welcome to the Smart Property Investment Show with your host Phil Tarrant.

Phil: Alright, Phil Tarrant here, I'm the host of the Smart Property Investment Show. Thank you for joining us today. I have a couple in the studio who I feel are gonna to have a bit of fun. It's gearing up towards Christmas and a lot of people are starting to think about what the year ahead is going to have and reflecting on the year past and our guests today have been in the game a little while, but I think they're looking to grow and evolve.

            Background to the chat, we received an email to [email protected] that I use so we do answer email lists and we can get you on the show. It's all really good, but I'm gonna read you the email that we received from these guys prior to introducing them just to let you know what they said.

            "I've been listening to your podcast usually twice a week ..." So thank you. "... since the start of the year. I've found them so helpful and your show has helped me to find a good buyer's agent and accountant. My wife and I have our principal place of residence, which is in Ingleburn, which is southwest Sydney near Campbelltown and we recently purchased an investment property near Brisbane. We have owned property previously, but we didn't really know what we were doing when we were younger. We represent investors who didn't particularly start that early. We made a few mistakes. Got out of the market and come back in again. Through your podcast and others, The Property Couch and Investing Insights with the Right Property Group. I've gained a lot more knowledge and we're building a good team of professionals who'll help us acquire more properties in the future. My wife and I would like to be on the show to share our story.

            Okay. Yeah. Simon and Vanessa Refalo. How're you going?

Simon: We're well. Very well.

Vanessa: Wow. Thank you for having us.

Simon: You do respond actually.

Phil: We do respond. We love stories.

Simon: I think you called like the next day.

Phil: Oh really? That's cool.

Simon: Really, I was impressed.

Phil: I'll pass that feedback to your team. That's good to know they're getting back to people so quickly. Thanks for coming on. It's cool.

Simon: Thank you.

Vanessa: Thank you.

Phil: We love these stories.

Simon: Thanks for having us.

Phil: Why would you like to share your story, Simon?

Simon: I think we're just ordinary people. I think sometimes when you think of investors, property investors, you think of these gurus and there are probably are gurus out there, but we're just ordinary Australians. We have jobs. I'm not a full-time investor at all. Getting my head around being called a property investor is still strange for me. I think everyone has a story and I think your show ... I love listening to stories. I love listening to couples or individuals who have a story, and I always learn from those stories. More than probably the experts that talk about lots of properties that they own. I thought we've got something to share I suppose.

Phil: So, Simon, is yours a good story or a bad story?

Simon: I think ...

Phil: Or a never-ending story?

Vanessa: It's a complex narrative.

Phil: Complex narrative. There we go.

Simon: Well let's hope it ends well, the story. Yeah I suppose we've journeyed ... We've been married for 25 years so we've got a bit of life and we'll see how the story ends. We'll see how it sounds.

Phil: Who instigated the idea of writing in to us and coming on to the show?

Simon: It was actually me. My wife didn't even know.

Vanessa: I was a little surprised, but that's okay. Good surprise.

Phil: Did he go "We're going on a date night tonight"?

Simon: I did.

Vanessa: He did spring it on me fairly recently, but that's alright.

Phil: That's cool.

Vanessa: We're up for it. That's fine.

Phil: So who's the most passionate probably person out of you two?

Vanessa: It's changed over time.

Phil: Okay.

Vanessa: Initially it was me. I was really keen Actually, we were reflecting on this in preparation for the show and I think it all started with 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'.

Phil: Okay. Great book.

Vanessa: Robert Kiyosaki. And the idea of changing your mindset really resonated with me and Simon and quite a few of our friends. So that's where the journey started. So I was the one who was the driving force, probably 20 years ago now. We had some success and then we got out of the game and things have been a bit ... It's been a bit of a sleeper. I think more recently we realised we've hit our 40s and just preparing for the future and that's where Simon comes in.

Phil: Was this a light bulb moment for you both, or one of you, or combined where you went we're getting to be that old ... I'm about the same age as you guys ... Not old yet, but ... you've still got a few good years left in you all ...

Vanessa: Yes. I'm good with that.

Phil: Did you go "Shit, we better start thinking about this?" Did that happen?

Vanessa: Yes. Most definitely.

Phil: Was there a catalyst for that? Was there a life event or something that made you just go "Shit"? Sorry about swearing, but ...

Vanessa: All good. We're from the west. We're good. It's probably just more realising our days in work we could see there is and end in sight, and I don't like the idea of having a very limited income and restricting us in regards to life choices after work. I love the idea of making a generational change. I think that window is fast closing for us. Because as we've discovered along the way, property is not a quick buck. So we need to project quite a distance into the future. Funny enough, it feels very critical now.

Phil: But it's critical in a good way. You do have time on your side ...

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: ... but maybe take a step to say "Hang on a second, we need to start thinking about this."

Vanessa: Yeah and I'm glad we've made the mistakes and experienced what we've experienced along the way because it connects really consistently with what we've been hearing on your podcast. We're reading about ... It's a very similar idea about property is a long-term investment.

Phil: Yeah, it's time in the market, not timing the market.

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: So if you guys started investing when you're 40 and you work until 70, you can get two and a bit, maybe three market cycles in that period of time. I reckon that property, depending on who you talk to, doubles in value every 8 to 12 years. You know, if you can get three goes at that. If you buy a property today, it's gonna be six times the value in three markets time.

Simon: Yeah.

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: So there's some of that thing.

Simon: Yeah, but I always ... in hindsight you wish you were smarter when you were ten years younger.

Vanessa: That first property.

Phil:  So you said that you got out of the game so you were investing there for a little while, were you?

Simon:  We bought our first property, which was Vanessa's ...

Vanessa: My mom and dad's ...

Simon: ... home.

Vanessa: ... home.

Simon: So we kicked them out of their house, and we bought their property

Vanessa: That was our ... they went somewhere better.

Phil: Did you get a good price?

Simon: Yeah $140 ...

Phil: Okay.

Simon: ... in Green Valley area. It was an ex housing commission house.

Phil: Cool. When was that? Was it a while ago?

Simon: '99.

Vanessa: Yeah. We think so.

Phil: It was about '99?

Simon: Yeah. So that was the first house that we bought.

Vanessa: Which I do recall was a very nerve wracking moment.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: So you bought that to live in it?

Simon: Yeah. Principal place of residence. That's right.

Vanessa: Yeah. To have a mortgage was a significant step, for me at least.

Simon: When we were young we didn't earn a lot and it was a big jump.

Vanessa: It was housing commission. It was my mom and dad's housing commission home. They'd purchased it ... there was a particular programme the government ... about buying ... I can't recall what it was called at the time ... where they could buy it. So they did.

Phil: A lot of people did it. My grandmother lived in a housing commission home in Yagoona and they ended up buying it. So it's quite an incentive for people way back then.

Vanessa: Yeah. So for many years they rented so that was something I was used to. Just having a mortgage was a big deal back then. Glad we made the step though.

Phil: So you lived in there for a little while?

Simon: Yeah, so we lived in there for about five years.

Vanessa: Yes.

Simon: And the property pretty much doubled.

Vanessa: Yes.

Simon: And then my wife ... we had this idea of going into business.

Phil: Okay.

Vanessa: So we saw that equity build and the potential.

Simon: We saw the equity build and back then we didn't think "Let's invest in another property. Let's buy ... do a business and sell our house."

Phil: So you sold the house, took the money, paid off the debt.

Simon: So we sold the house.

Vanessa: Had lots of fun for a year. Went into the coffee cart business.

Simon: Actually did coffee.

Phil: How'd that go? This is like '90, 2000 and ...

Vanessa: This is now like 2004.

Phil: Okay.

Simon: Yeah.

Vanessa: And ...

Simon: It was fun.

Vanessa: It was fun. It was fun.

Simon: We took a risk.

Vanessa: We were horrible business people, but it was fun.

Simon: It was fun. It was an adventure.

Phil: Make a lot of coffees, did you?

Simon: Made a few coffees.

Vanessa: Yup.

Simon: Yeah, but then ... so we had the business for about a year and then realised it's not our thing.

Vanessa: We actually had discussed earlier that we were going to make sure we had a buffer, that we wouldn't go below a certain amount in our savings account so we could get back into property. I think we had discussed that with somebody earlier on and we hot that buffer and had to make the difficult decision and went back to look at purchasing. I think came across an investment group.

Simon: Yeah. So we're trying to remember this time. I think it was ...

Phil: The fact that you're using the term investment group says to me that you probably didn't have a great experience.

Simon: Well yeah, I mean ...

Vanessa: But no, it was not a bad ...

Phil: Let's not name names ...

Simon: No, we can't even remember.

Vanessa: It was actually not so bad.

Simon: It wasn't so bad.

Vanessa: So we bought in Perth. It was on an increase, on the rise at the time, but hadn't peaked. The funny story is when we bought that property ... so we didn't go over and see it at the time. We couldn't afford to do that. At least that was our perception then. Different now. We bought the property. The people that were renting ... that was a great experience. They were on time. Then we discovered we could not cope with the heavily negatively geared aspect of it. We were quite low-income earners at the time and it was just a real struggle, every single week to try to come up with that money. I think it was negatively geared by about 2, 250 a week the way it worked out.

Phil: Okay so like 1,000 bucks a month.

Vanessa: That was a lot for us.

Phil: That's a lot of money ... well for anybody.

Vanessa: So came to the realisation the market's grown a little bit we might make a little bit back on it. We can't sustain this, so let's get rid of it.

Simon: Sold it.

Phil: Where was it?

Simon: It's in Falcon.

Phil: Falcon?

Simon: Falcon. It's kind of a newer suburb at the time.

Vanessa: So we put it on the market and then as bad luck would have it, the couple had to move back to UK and then that meant we had the property on the market and no one ...

Simon: No tenant.

Vanessa: ... in the property. That was a real struggle. I think it took us about two months to sell the place.

Phil: Really?

Vanessa: That was ...

Phil: So you had to carry the mortgage the whole time.

Vanessa: We struggled at the time.

Simon: Carry the mortgage with no tenant.

Phil: How'd you guys ... I imagine it was financially quite stressful. What'd you do? Stop spending or did you tighten your belt or ...?

Simon: I can't remember. It was around Christmas, wasn't it?

Vanessa: It was.

Simon: We were around Christmas. It was quite stressful.

Phil: It's always hard around that time.

Vanessa: I guess we thought we will make a little bit on it so we just held on, held our breath and waited for it.

Phil: So you sold it?

Vanessa: We sold it.

Phil: And you clear the mortgage out and make a few bucks as well?

Vanessa: Yeah. So we bought it for 295 or something like that and sold it for 350.

Phil: Okay.

Vanessa: In six months. In real terms that was about a $12,000 ... after the mortgage and all the expenses.

Phil: You made 12 grand.

Vanessa: $13,000 or something like that.

Phil: Okay.

Vanessa: Yeah in written ... you know after all the expenses.

Phil: Emotionally was it worth making $12,000 doing that in terms of the stress?

Vanessa: Not for those two months.

Phil: A lot of people sometimes, they always think about dollars, but you gotta think about your happiness as well, right?

Simon: Definitely.

Phil: It's so important. So important.

Simon: Yeah.

Vanessa: Well we're people of faith and I guess at that time it helped us to rely on that and trust it's gonna be okay. We're gonna be fine. We'll get through it.

Phil: And you got through it, which is cool.

Vanessa: We did.

Phil: So that was you out of the market again.

Simon: Yeah. So we were out of the market so we rented for a while. I can't remember the time frame. Then we wanted to buy again. Another place to live in. We could only afford a duplex at that time, so we bought in Bonnyrigg. Bonnyrigg Heights.

Vanessa: It's a real place.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: It's on the Fairfield, right?

Simon: Yup, that's right. So we paid 305 and we stayed in that house for five years.

Phil: Okay. And this is 2005, is it? 2006?

Vanessa: Yeah.

Simon: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It was a strata, so it was small set of duplexes.

Phil: Like townhouses.

Simon: Yeah.

Vanessa: There was ten altogether. So metroplex and duplexes, tri-level townhouses.

Simon: But we were having horrible issues with our strata. Strata just poorly run.

Vanessa: Yup.

Simon: And we were thinking we want to buy a house. We don't want ... We've got kids and the strata was shocking. And we knew we better get out now before enough ... I think there was structural stuff in the house.

Vanessa: So we were on a hill.

Simon: We found it sinking from all the ...

Vanessa: It was sinking originally.

Simon: I don't think it was anything happening. I thought we better have an exit strategy so we sold it.

Phil: After five years?

Simon: I think we bought it for 305 and I think we sold it for 335.

Phil: Oh. Okay.

Vanessa: And that was ...

Simon: We took a bit of a hit.

Phil: Should have gone up a lot more in that period of time.

Vanessa: We couldn't ... we should have ... market value was about 370, 380. However, because of the strata issues and every time we'd have a buyer ... when they delve into the issues ...

Simon: When they checked out ...

Vanessa: Yeah.

Simon: ... who had often thought, nah.

Vanessa: It was pretty disappointing.

Simon: Yeah. It was one of those things. I thought "I'm not doing strata again." I didn't like it.

Vanessa: Yeah, I'm not keen.

Phil: So you sold the place in Bonnyrigg Heights.

Simon: Yup.

Phil: And what happened then?

Simon: So we actually bought Ingleburn.

Phil: Okay. So that's your principal place originally.

Vanessa: It's where we are now.

Simon: That's right.

Phil: A house?

Simon: That's right. A half block. No strata.

Vanessa: A real one.

Simon: I own the place. So we've got friends who live in Ingleburn. My wife was going, "We've gotta go to Ingleburn." There's new train lines.

Vanessa: Yup.

Simon: You can get access to the city. Plenty of land. It's bigger blocks and so she convinced me.

Vanessa: Yeah sorry. Just on the record it took about ten years to convince him about Ingleburn.

Phil: Ingleburn's a great space.

Simon: It's a really ...

Vanessa: Lovely, quiet village.

Phil: So when did you buy in Ingleburn?

Simon: We bought in Ingleburn in 2013.

Phil: Okay. I reckon you done well out of that.

Simon: We did well out of that.

Vanessa: We're very happy.

Simon: It's a 900 square.

Phil: Okay.

Simon: I put a granny flat in there so that's being tenanted out.

Phil: So you live there, but you put a granny flat ...?

Simon: No, the granny flat was already there.

Vanessa: It was already there.

Phil: So that's tenanted separately. Okay.

Vanessa: Which is part of the ...

Phil: That must help with the mortgage.

Vanessa: We had a list of all the things we wanted.

Simon: Yeah, and we wanted a granny flat.

Vanessa: And that was a big thing ...

Phil: Oh that's cool.

Vanessa: ... for me. Part of it was income stream and on and off for our children who were approaching adulthood at the time.

Simon: Yeah. So our daughter lives in there now.

Phil: Oh does she? Do you charge her rent?

Vanessa: And her husband. Yeah.

Simon: Yes. Kind of a sweet deal.

Phil: So market? Or do you use ...

Simon: Probably a little bit below.

Vanessa: No, they get a pretty good deal.

Simon: Yeah, but she's moving out soon so we'll bump it up.

Phil: It contributes to the mortgage, right?

Simon: It does. It's actually ... it's helpful.

Phil: Quite a big chunk.

Simon: It's quite nice.

Phil: Yeah.

Simon: Yeah. So we love Ingleburn and it got rezoned recently. So we're in high-medium ...

Vanessa: Density.

Simon: So that's really handy.

Phil: on a 900 square meter block

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: And what sort of place is it? Is it a brick place? Or is it ...

Simon: Yeah. Brick veneer. Yeah it's a three bedder ... four bedder or something like that. Three bedder with a study. Like an older house. It's in a really quiet street.

Vanessa:  It's about 50 years old.

Simon: It's an established street.

Phil: So essentially, if you wanted to, you could probably knock it down and stick some townhouses on it at some point or someone will buy it and do that.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Phil:  The fact that you have the zoning is a good thing.

Simon: I think we're gonna hold on to it and see what happens. Definitely. We're not letting this one go.

Phil:  No. Hold on.

Vanessa: Very shortly though I guess for me ... I'm a bit more anxious than Simon is about it in that I'd like to have conversation with our neighbours about they want to do with the space. Because within the same block there's already a couple of properties cleared for some medium density housing. Our house which is facing the main road, so whilst it might be a few years away, I'd like to at least get a head's up on ...

Phil:    A lot of people these days are clubbing together with neighbours and selling them as huge development blocks. If it's zoned ... How far from train station are you?

Vanessa: Seven minute walk.

Simon: Seven minute walk.

Phil: Okay. You never know what happens. Just ...

Vanessa: Just keep that option ...

Phil: Just keep your options open.

Simon: She's more adventurous than me. I don't want to leave.

Vanessa: I love where we live. I really do.

Simon: It is a really nice space.

Vanessa: But don't wanna miss out.

Phil: It's a very similar place like Campbelltown. Campbelltown has got everything now in terms of ... and people talk about ... a lot about these days about you need to live within 15 kilometres of the CBD for stuff to be whatever ... I did a podcast with Bernard Salt a couple of weeks ago and we was saying the same logic holds true in satellite towns. Campbelltown is a big local government area which is an industry and all that sort of stuff. And Ingleburn is a suburb of Campbelltown. How long does it take you to get into Campbelltown from Ingleburn?

Simon: Like 15 minutes.

Vanessa: 15 minutes to Campbelltown, 15 minutes to Liverpool.

Simon: Yeah and Liverpool. We're kind of smack in that ...

Phil: Smack right in the middle.

Vanessa: And in fact we're quite close, and the village of Ingleburn has quite a lot of everything we need there. We really don't have to go very far.

Phil: Self containing. Everything's there.

Vanessa: Yeah. It's lovely. Quiet enough.

Phil: So you've held on to your Ingleburn property.

Vanessa: We have.

Phil: The granny flat helps with the income. Good. An important investment property.

Simon: That's right.

Vanessa: Yes.

Simon: And then we bought in ...

Vanessa: We finally did it.

Simon: ... Waterford west in Brisbane. So at the start ... at the end of last year we had our Ingleburn place. I was starting to take the lead a bit more. I said we've got to get back into investing. So my brother-in-law's in real estate and he was showing us some podcast ... videos of another buyer's agent, and I'd never really heard that term. Buyer's agent. It was quite foreign to me. And so we're just watching this guy and he's acquired all these ... I'm not gonna name the name because we didn't go with them ... but we're watching this guy and I'm thinking, "Wow." So we actually went to one of their information nights. I think we paid a small ... a bit of a fee.

Vanessa: So can I just fill in a bit of this extra?

Simon: Sure.

Vanessa: So with our careers as they are I just felt like I could not focus on property. So when we discussed everything I said, "It's all yours. So you go with it." So which has been ...

Simon: It's not ...

Vanessa: ... fun.

Phil: It's irrelevant, but what do you guys do for a living?

Vanessa: So I'm an English teacher.

Phil: Okay.

Vanessa: Yup.

Phil: So secondary school.

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: In the Campbelltown area.

Vanessa: Can I name?

Phil: Sure.

Vanessa: The Campbelltown Performing Arts High School. Yeah. Great place.

Phil: Teachers are cool. You guys do a great thing.

Vanessa: Love the job. Love it.

Phil: Yeah, yeah. You guys do a great job. And what do ...

Simon: I'm a social worker.

Phil: Okay.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: And you work with kids or adults or ...?

Simon: Both.

Phil: Both.

Simon: Young people and families. Love it.

Phil: It's a commendable profession.

Simon: Yeah. It's full on, but I really enjoy it.

Phil: I imagine you're good with it. You've got a really nice temperament. I can see that people like talking to you.

Vanessa: He does.

Simon: Yeah I do. The conversations I've had, yes. Anyway, off topic ...

Phil: So you're the guy ... so you're teaching ...

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: So you've got on alright.

Simon: Vanessa works probably harder than me so just the hours ...

Vanessa: I'm very passionate about it so it's okay.

Simon: Just the hours that teachers do, I knew she couldn't do it and I thought let's take a plunge. So through learning about these buyer's agents I thought, "Okay, there's got to be more to this." So we didn't sign up with that particular buyer's agent, but we ...

Vanessa: Just ... I think just philosophically it wasn't exactly where we wanted to be.

Simon: Yeah. I think he was quite aggressive in his approach. I'm thinking I don't want to own 40 properties and have this big portfolio.

Vanessa: We're just not ... Yeah we weren't ready for that explosion.

Simon: Yeah. It felt like an explosion.

Vanessa: It seemed to be.

Simon: But through that, somehow we discovered podcasting and your show popped up. I don't know where.

Phil: It just happened.

Simon: Just something on the radio.

Vanessa: It was a good find.

Simon: It was a good find.

Phil: Thank you.

Simon: And then through your show we actually ... I think you interviewed Rich Harvey.

Phil: Oh yeah. Years, years. Rich to you?

Vanessa: Nice guy.

Simon: So Rich got us our Brisbane property.

Phil: Yeah. Rich is cool. He does a bunch of ... He's been in the market for a long time, Rich. He's actually got the URL

Simon: Property buyer?

Phil: Yeah so he knows his onions, Rich.

Simon: Yeah. You've interviewed a few buyer's agents and I just ... I don't know ... I'm gonna check this guy out. I liked him.

Phil: Cool.

Vanessa: I think philosophically you've gotta fit.

Simon: Yeah. He fit for us. He was ... I don't know ... He wasn't massively aggressive. He just fit where we're at. So we used him., and then I realised I need a team. Because you're always talking about having a team. Buyer's agent, accountant ...

Phil: Brokers.

Simon: ... broker. So the broker helped us ... He was really good. He was really good. And we've recently caught up with Montrell.

Phil: No. There ya go.

Simon: So we had another accountant. We weren't happy with that accountant. I thought, well you know what, I've heard him on the podcast and I like him and obviously you rate him.

Phil: Yeah Montrell's good. Here you go, Montrell.

Simon: There you go. Cash for comment.

Phil: Montrell's cool, alright. He's a good accountant. He's my accountant. I'm not gonna give you a plug Montrell. What anyone should be looking for in an accountant is someone who knows property, and there are some really good accountants out there that do it. It's cool you're getting ...

Simon: We just started working with him.

Phil: Oh yeah?

Simon: So we'll see how we go.

Phil: It's funny. Just so our listeners know, it's completely unscripted this and you guys ...

Vanessa: Absolutely.

Phil: ... can attest to it. I don't know these things. I find out myself on the day!

Simon: It's so funny. The surprised look on your face.

Phil: It's quite funny, which is cool. Both Rich and Montrell. They know what they're doing.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: We're fortunate as property investors that there's some really capable and talented professionals out there that can help us do what we need to do. You gotta find the one that's right for you.

Simon: Yeah, and it took a little bit of ... we didn't go with our first buyer's agent. It just didn't feel right, and it took a little while to start working with Rich.

Phil: You've gotta be comfortable, right.

Vanessa: Yeah. Exactly.

Phil: It's quite a personal relationship.

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: You're a counsellor. I mean a social worker for a living and you've gotta trust the person before you can actually influence them to make the decision that they need to be able to make themselves.

Simon: Absolutely.

Phil: The professionals in the marketplace will have a chat with you and give you the information that you need in order to make a decision, a step forward to do something that they need to do.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: You've gotta be comfortable.

Simon: Definitely. I value our relationships like in business or whatever. They're important to us.

Vanessa: Absolutely.

Phil: So you guys ... You've bought one property?

Simon: So we're about to buy ... we're looking at buying another one ... probably March next year start looking around again.

Vanessa: We were ...

Simon: So we have a bit of a plan.

Vanessa: I mean, you know, about when to do that. Initially, we were going to wait probably a year.

Simon: Just to see our first property ... see how ...

Phil: Is that just your appetite for risk?

Vanessa: Yeah. Absolutely.

Simon: We could afford ...

Phil: There's nothing wrong with that by the way. You've gotta do stuff at your own pace.

Vanessa: And actually Rich and his guys, his team, they've been great in that just letting us travel along the idea where we are comfortable. And since because of that ... I guess ... not necessarily coaching through, but giving us some space. So they gave us some time. They've done a couple of calls with us about where we're at. So now we've decided we're probably ready to move a bit quicker than we thought we were.

Phil: Go at your own pace.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Phil: Make decisions you need to make. Don't be rushed. If anyone told you to hurry up, they're not the right person for you.

Vanessa: No.

Simon: Yeah. So it seems to be a pretty consistent message. Even when Montrell, he said you buy when you want to buy. So I though okay everyone seems to be saying it so ...

Phil: You've got a bit of scar tissue as well because you've gone down a path of knowing what it's like to be holding properties which are ...

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: It's okay to have negatively geared properties if you know why you're holding negatively geared properties.

Simon: That's right. Yup.

Phil: And you've got to be comfortable with the negative gearing on it.Trying to find a thousand bucks a month is a lot of money to find so you've gotta find the right properties that fit within your portfolio to do what you want to do. You obviously know what you wanna do. Have you guys got a number? You're obviously investing in property now to provide for life after work.

Simon: A number of properties?

Phil: No a number that you would like when you choose to stop working that you'd be getting as a passive income?

Simon: I think that 100K is one of the figures and we've been ... that's one of them. And we've then gone, okay so what do we need in property for that to happen.

Vanessa: So I think that's something like 2.2 unencumbered.

Simon: Yeah. 2.2 million.

Phil: I'm sure Montrell will help you work out what that is.

Simon: Yeah. Well he ... it was interesting because Rich said around 8 properties then sell down 4 and have 4 unencumbered. We'll give you that. Montrell ...

Vanessa: He seems to be consistent.

Simon: ... will find about 5 to 6 and I thought I actually like that because I don't wanna have heaps of them.

Phil:    The good thing is that 90% of winning is beginning ... whatever cliché you want right? You've started now. Your goals today probably won't be the same goals you're gonna have in 5 or 10 years time. As your experience grows ...

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: ... and you get more confidence and you actually get what's going on. You know you might become more ambitious and you might change those goals. And work out what you can do to actually realise them. I'm really happy with you guys. It's a good story. A bit sort of stop and start, but now it sounds like you started again.

Vanessa: Yeah, and I think we've got the right advice this time around and we're very comfortable with the purchase in ... where is it?

Simon: Brisbane. Waterford West.

Vanessa: Waterford. I know the water-something. We're comfortable with that and we're able to maintain it and stay in the market whereas previously we weren't able to maintain it.

Phil: Well that's it. You don't want to be selling a property, you know ... ne of the reasons that I've been good at investing in property because often the properties that I secure, people need to sell it for a reason and therefore you get under market value. You don't want to be that person that's selling under market value because you're under financial stress or there's some other situation.

Vanessa:  Yeah.

Phil: Work within your own parameters and know what they are and be comfortable and confident with it. Okay. So March, you think you're in again.

Simon: Well we've thrown it out there.

Phil: Well you've set yourself a goal. It's on-air.

Simon: True. It's on-air.

Phil:    Australia's best are probably listening to us so ...

Simon: Alright.

Phil: ... let's see what happens. Let's bring you back in six months’ time and I'm gonna hold you guys accountable or you aren't coming again. You know, Phil, didn’t happen!

Vanessa: We ended up with 5.

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: It sounds like you've got the right people on your side to help give you some counsel as you go and do it, but that said the decision is yours. You can't outsource responsibility of your investing to other people. Good advice will equip you with the knowledge you need to have ... in order to make decisions you need to make. Yeah. Cool.

Simon: Nice.

Phil: Did you enjoy it?

Simon: So valued.

Vanessa: Indeed.

Simon: Crazy.

Phil: Do you think you guys are good podcast guests?

Simon: Aw well ...

Vanessa: We've no idea.

Simon: I don't know.

Vanessa: You tell us.

Simon: You've done them more than us.

Phil: Oh no no. I really enjoy these type of chats. It's ... obviously we've got different sorts of people on the show. Some of them sort of hotshot ...

Simon: Yeah.

Phil: ... young people who are looking to make a bazillion dollars out of property and then we've got a lot of experts on the show that do it for a living and they give us plenty of knowledge and advice. But to bookend our chat you said that you said that you're just normal people, but most property investors are just normal people.

Vanessa:  Yeah.

Phil: People who are taking an action to look at building wealth so it gives them choice as they get older, and generationally as well. I think that's great. You guys are very ... you guys represent probably this across Australia. Most investors are like you guys, you know. Like me, who are just getting stuff done and knowing why we're doing it and trying to have fun in the process.

Vanessa: Yeah we ... part of the reason we went with Rich was because we love our jobs. We're really passionate about what we do. We're actually not passionate about investing. We love what it can offer us. Like you said, choice about our future. So that's a little bit different to some, but definitely ...

Simon: But I do ... now doing it, I am really passionate about investing.

Vanessa: Okay.

Simon: I've got more time to be passionate about investing. I do really enjoy it.

Phil: Nothing wrong with being passionate. Might passion your paycheck. I stole that. A guy called Tom House says that.

Vanessa: It's that too. It is. It is good.

Phil: Thanks guys. So six months time?

Vanessa: Thank you.

Phil:    Get you back in?

Simon: Okay.

Phil: See what's going on?

Simon: Yeah yeah.

Phil: So Vanessa? Cool?

Vanessa: Yeah.

Simon: Sounds good.

Phil: And you recommend writing in to us and coming on the show.

Vanessa: Absolutely.

Simon: You guys have a quick turnaround. Actually 8:30 in the morning my phone went off. I was like "Wow" and I didn't recognise the number and ...

Phil: Sweet.

Simon: There you go.

Phil: Okay. [email protected]

Simon: It works.

Vanessa: Yes.

Phil: Come on. It'll be fun. Remember to check out if you're not yet subscribing to our daily news and market intelligence. Make sure you're one of the first to know what's going on in property in Australia. If you're a social media type of person and that's how you want to get your information just search SmartProperty HQ through the Facebook and Linkedin. You'll track us down. Remember those five star reviews on iTunes. Please keep them coming The team loved them. We'll be back again next time. Until then, bye bye.

Announcer: The information featured in this podcast is general in nature and does take into consideration your financial situation or individual needs and should not be relied upon. Before making any investment, insurance, tax, property or financial planning decision you should consult a licenced professional who can advise whether your decision is appropriate for you. Guest appearing on this podcast may have a commercial relationship with the companies mentioned.


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