Melbourne, Perth drive weekly auction activity
Capital city auction activity is expected to rise over this weekend, with an increase in volumes on the back of strong a...
Daniel Walsh says he’s been researching all things property investment since he was just 16. A decade later, this investor now owns seven properties and a subdivided lot – with even bigger and better plans ahead of him.
In this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show, Daniel joins host Phil Tarrant and guest co-host Aleks Vickovich to explain how he researches the market, balances his portfolio and manages his tax each fortnight, and why he believes that looking beyond one’s own backyard at different property markets could allow the budding investor the opportunity to begin their own investment journey.
Tune in now to hear all of this and much, much more in this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show!
Did you like this episode? Show your support by rating us on iTunes (The Smart Property Investment Show) and by liking and following Smart Property Investment on social media: Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. If you have any questions about what you heard today, any topics of interest you have in mind, or if you’d like to lend your voice to the show, email [email protected] for more insight!
Property refers to either a tangible or intangible item that an individual or business has legal rights or ownership of, such as houses, cars, stocks or bond certificates.
Phil Tarrant: Hello everyone, Phil Tarrant here. I'm the host of The Smart Property Investment Show. Thanks for tuning in. Always appreciate you guys listening to what we've got to say as we embark on our journey of helping everyone create wealth-free property. On the wealth side, I've got a new guest who hasn't appeared on The Smart Property Investment Show before but is a guy that goes by the name of Aleks Vickovich. Aleks, how you going?
Aleks Vickovich: G'day, I'm doing very well, Phil.
Phil Tarrant: So, Aleks works here at Momentum Media. Aleks is the head of editorial across our wealth suite of products. Our wealth suite of products includes a whole bunch of stuff around funds management, financial advice, financial planning, innovation, technology, mainly round the wealth space. So, I thought I'd drag Aleks in today and get him to lend some of his journalistic insight and sort of cynicism.
Aleks Vickovich: Sure.
Phil Tarrant: I know the world of property so-
Aleks Vickovich: I know a little bit more about investing in credit card debt than I do about investing in bricks and mortar at the moment but, none the less, watch this space closely and I've been loving the show, Phil.
Phil Tarrant: Good, good to have you on. Our guest today is Daniel Walsh and, if you're familiar with the show, you'll know that we deliberately don't make this too scripted. So, I've pulled Aleks in and he's going to deliver some fresh, new, brilliant ideas on the world of property investment. Daniel is someone who I've just met and what I really enjoy about the Smart Property Investment Show is that I get to embark, like you guys, on a fresh new journey every time I'm on air. Meeting new people, understanding their mindset, their view towards property investment and, hopefully, take some gems away from it that I can use in my own portfolio building. So, Daniel, how are you going, mate?
Daniel Walsh: I'm good, Phil. How are you?
Phil Tarrant: Good. The question I asked you when I first met you, I said "Are you a property investor?" And you said "Yes" and I said "That's all I need to know".
Daniel Walsh: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: What do I need to know about you as a property investor, Daniel?
Daniel Walsh: Pretty much started investing in 2011, when I was about 20 years old. I've been actually studying investment since I was 16 years old.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Daniel Walsh: It took me about four years to save for my first deposit, to be able to build my first house. Pretty much was an apprentice auto electrician for four years. Then from there, saved my money for the four years, bought a block of land, built on it and then just pretty much repeated the process. Went and bought another house in New South Wales about a year later and then sat back for about two years and then, yes, continued building. I bought another two properties in 2014 and then, yes, continued building my portfolio from there.
Phil Tarrant: So, how many properties in your portfolio now?
Daniel Walsh: I've got seven properties in my portfolio and a block of land that I'm currently subdividing off the last one that I just bought.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Daniel Walsh: So, I just bought a house in Carrum Downs. It has pretty much side access of 15 metres with 25 metres deep and I'm going to put a second dwelling on that one.
Phil Tarrant: So, you've just given me so much material that we could probably have about 80 different conversations just based on that info. Before I go down that path, just quickly, what's the total value of your portfolio?
Daniel Walsh: Sitting a bit over 2.9 million, so between 2.9 and 3 million, now.
Phil Tarrant: 2.9 and 3, okay. How much debt do you have sitting there?
Daniel Walsh: 1.9.
Phil Tarrant: 1.9, okay. You're doing all right.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, not too bad.
Phil Tarrant: How old are you?
Daniel Walsh: 26.
Phil Tarrant: 26 and you've been at this for six years now?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, six years I've been at it but 10 years studying. So, pretty much every single day, this is my whole life. I study this. If I'm not working, I'm doing this.
Aleks Vickovich: So, Daniel, I'm interested in the reasons why you got into property, specifically. As Phil said, a lot of my readers are financial advisors, financial planners and they always go on about how you need to be diversified into all different asset classes. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. Australians, for some reason, they love property. It's a deep thing. What was it for you and I'm interested particularly, did your background as a sparky, do you think, mean that you had some natural affinity understanding of the housing market?
Daniel Walsh: No, not really. To be honest, when I started, I started as an auto-elec at 16, with my father. I was earning about 250 dollars a week when I started. So, I decided that I would save my first deposit for a house and then from there, it pretty much, the first house that I bought and I settled, it was making me 100 dollars a week, passive income. I thought to myself, well if I can do this on one house, why can't I do this on 10 houses? If I can do this on 10 houses, it makes more money than I'm earning now. So, that's pretty much the reason why I got into it, was financial freedom, to be able to enjoy what I do and stop working, or maybe part time working and then be able to get into more so investing, helping other people invest.
Aleks Vickovich: So, a lot of people at that same age, obviously spending money on very different things than investing for, or saving for a deposit on an investment property. You know blowing money down the drain, a lot of millennials. What was it, do you think, in your background that made you seek that financial freedom and take that little bit more seriously early on in life?
Daniel Walsh: I think, when I was about 17, I bought a car that was worth about 30 grand.
Aleks Vickovich: Mm-hmm.
Phil Tarrant: How many times I hear this story!
Daniel Walsh: I sold that for $11,000 and I think it was that time that I realised that, if I continue doing this, I'm going to have nothing. I pretty much sold that car, went out and bought a bomb for about 2000 dollars. Then, for the next three to four years, I just saved really hard.
Aleks Vickovich: Smart kid.
Daniel Walsh: And just thought, I need to park all my money in assets. At the time, in the Sydney market, I was able to get 7% plus yields, so that was pretty much the reasoning why I started because I could get passive income from day one, with the low interest rates.
Phil Tarrant: You actually beat me to the punch now because this is where I wanted to steer the conversation is a little bit about asset classes and leveraging your background and the markets that you work within, Aleks, is with financial planners and advisors, or whatever you want to call them. A lot of financial advisors and planners don't really go down the property path.
Aleks Vickovich: Sure.
Phil Tarrant: They typically manage funds, or ETFs, or bonds, or cash, or ...
Aleks Vickovich: Yes, well there are some regulatory hurdles for them.
Phil Tarrant: There is. It's an interesting mindset because a lot of young Aussie guys or girls have an affinity with property and my question to you is, is it only property that you're focusing on, or are there other asset classes that area coming to your ...
Daniel Walsh: At the moment, property is pretty much what I focus on. I think it's, out of all the asset classes, the most stable. I think it doesn't matter if it goes up or down, if you have bricks and mortar, you have something there. Whereas, shares, it's too fluctuating, it goes up and down. You don't know whether you're going to have something tomorrow. Whereas, if you have property, you know that you've got your asset base. You've got, say, ten properties, you know what you've got and, if you don't sell them for another 10 or 15 years, you know you're going to make money over the long term. With me, investing young, I just knew that if I invested young enough, over the long term I would make money.
Phil Tarrant: Are you getting any advice from anyone as you go down this path?
Daniel Walsh: I have had mentors, yes. At the moment, probably, my finance broker. He's got nine, ten properties himself. I've been with him for about five years now and he's taught me a fair bit.
Aleks Vickovich: So, he basically provides you some kind of general financial advice along the way.
Daniel Walsh: He goes, a lot of the stuff is finance he's done. I watch on Sky Business Channel. I watch pretty much every property show there is and I've been doing that since about the age of 16. So, I pretty much don't miss anything.
Aleks Vickovich: And do a lot of research?
Daniel Walsh: A lot of research.
Phil Tarrant: You mentioned that. You said that you worked with your old man as an auto electrician. Do you come from a family of property investors?
Daniel Walsh: Not really property investors. My Mum and Dad, when we were younger, they used to renovate and flip properties.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Daniel Walsh: So, that probably got me into the idea of property to begin with. We had about, over the years, I think Dad's flipped, probably about 10 properties, 15 properties.
Phil Tarrant: And did you use to live in the property and then move?
Daniel Walsh: Sometimes. Sometimes we lived in the property. Other times we built and sold. Sometimes he just renovated and flipped them. Pretty much he did that for most of his life, while working. I spent most weekends looking at properties.
Phil Tarrant: So, you worked as an apprentice, you worked with him as an auto electrician. Did he own the auto electrician business that you worked with him?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, yes, still does.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. Did that give him cash flow to be able to look at flipping properties and that, to supplement that other income?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, being in business with him, he couldn't on to them long-term, so he couldn't hold ten properties. Being in business, it's just a lot harder to be able to service loans.
Phil Tarrant: Mm-hmm.
Daniel Walsh: So, for him, it was a lot easier to flip houses, make quick 50,000 dollars, 100,000 dollars and do it to the next one. He's now holds a couple of properties but, yes, he mainly flipped throughout his career.
Phil Tarrant: And you're a Sydney boy, born and bred?
Daniel Walsh: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: Where did you grow up?
Daniel Walsh: I grew up around Camden.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. So for ...
Aleks Vickovich: That's good investment ground, isn't it?
Phil Tarrant: It is at the moment, yes.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, it's not too bad.
Phil Tarrant: It's sort of out of southwest Sydney.
Daniel Walsh: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: It's a really good place, right now and I guess with Badgerys Creek coming in and stuff. There's a lot of people who've been land banking up that way, are doing quite well. It's sort of semi-rural, semi-rural, right?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, semi-rural. At the moment, I live out at Picton way, so that's even a bit more rural but, yes, everyone land banks bigger lots of land, subdivides, duplexes and stuff like that.
Aleks Vickovich: Then, do you live in one of the properties in your portfolio?
Daniel Walsh: No, at the moment I currently live on a second property on, my Mum and Dad have five acres so there's two houses on there. I live in one of them and just rent-
Aleks Vickovich: Rent free?
Daniel Walsh: No, I've got to pay rent. I wish.
Aleks Vickovich: Micro prices?
Daniel Walsh: No, definitely not micro prices but, yes, I've got to pay rent to them. Eventually I will live in one of the houses that I built. I'll probably move into that in the next year or two.
Phil Tarrant: For a guy who's 26 years old you're quite progressed, in terms of building a portfolio. Absolutely commendable, I think it's great. We'd like to see young Aussies going out there and bucking the trend, the trend being housing affordability is nigh impossible to buy a property in a city market for young Australians. What do you say to all those naysayers out there that reckon that it's impossible to enter the Sydney property market as a young person?
Daniel Walsh: Well, it's definitely not as hard as everyone makes it out. I think, if you just start looking at other states, start looking outside your backyard. Too many people live in Sydney and they only look at Sydney. For me, after my second house in Sydney, I had to start looking at other states, Queensland, South Australia, Victoria, just because I couldn't afford to buy that half a million dollar house anymore. So, I started looking for houses that had cash flow, that had the upside for potential for growth, infrastructure coming to the area. Those were the houses that I wanted to invest in, something that didn't cost me 100 dollars a week to hold, which Sydney does now. I think it's not as hard as everyone makes out. I think if you just have a correct plan and you execute that plan, which is what I've done well in the last six years, that definitely sets you aside from just saying "I can't do this".
Aleks Vickovich: Yes, I think Daniel's mindset there is really key. I spent some time in the United Sates recently and I was speaking to a very wealthy guy in Florida at one stage. He has a very large property investment portfolio and he knows Australia quite well. His philosophy is quite similar to Daniel's in that he doesn't touch San Francisco, he doesn't touch New York City. He likes to go through states that are booming but that are not, you know, they're large property markets. He said to me "The thing that's interesting about Aussies is that they talk about this unaffordability crisis but they are all so obsessed with owning the home that they eventually live in as their family home and that means that all their assets are tied up in a house in part of town that they ideally want to live in, that they may not be able to afford and don't think outside." So I think that investor mindset there is what a lot of Aussies maybe don't have.
Phil Tarrant: Well, I think it's probably a sophisticated way to see the world and that difference between "I'm going to be a property investor" to people who are property investors and you're embarking on this process. You talk about this plan that you have, is it a genuine plan, have you actually sat there and thought about this and strategized and stress tested this plan, written the plan down and gone about fulfilling it? Can you tell me a little bit about that goal setting?
Daniel Walsh: Well, pretty much, yeah. Every day I do plan. So, six years ago, I planned for today. So, I have pretty much planned my property portfolio out and every asset that I put into that portfolio, I make sure it complements the other houses that I have. So, I may buy a house today that has extremely good cash flow, say 7, 8% yields, which is complementing something, which is negative cash flow that, over all my total portfolio, is going to be sort of neutral. I want to be in that neutral cash flow, with a buffer set aside, so that if anything goes wrong, I pretty much have all my bases covered. But, yes, I pretty much have planned out ten years of what I wanted to do and I'm pretty close to achieving it. My goal is 10 properties and I want to hit five million in property portfolio. So, I've got about another two years to do that.
Phil Tarrant: And you're still working?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, still working full time.
Phil Tarrant: As?
Daniel Walsh: I drive freight trains at night.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, around New South Wales and stuff?
Daniel Walsh: Yeah, around Sydney.
Phil Tarrant: So, plenty of time to think about property, when you're sitting there on the road.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, I work at night and then I do my property during the day. I also do my buyer's agent business.
Phil Tarrant: What do your mates at work think about this wealth building strategy? Are they aware that you're doing this, as well as the full time job that everyone else has?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, most of them because I talk to them a lot about it. I'm always talking about property, wherever I go so most of them, they do know about my property investing journey. Some of them have even got on board on one or two of the same. I try, I guess, I change a lot of their mindsets on the way their mum and dad get them to think. So, their mum and dad will say, buy the house in Sydney, pay $600,000, $700,000 dollars for it. They're in half a million dollars’ worth of debt and then they have to pay it off over the next 30 years. Whereas, I say "Why don't you go rent that property and why don't you go buy three or four others that cost you nothing and then, after five or ten years, you can build that? You might have 10 properties in 10 years and you'll be able to sell down half that portfolio and then go buy that endgame house that you have."
Phil Tarrant: And the guys at work, saying this, do they get it? Or, do they go "Mate, you're an idiot, what you're talking about bullshit. It doesn't work that way. It's all scam." What do they say? What's the negativity around that?
Daniel Walsh: Some do get it. Others take a little longer to get it and then there's others that just won't have a bar of it, pretty much. You can tell them everything and they just can't fathom renting while doing this.
Aleks Vickovich: It's our deep cultural thing, isn't it?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, I think just stems back down to your mum and dad and your mum and dad, they all just pretty much want you to buy the family home, pay it off and own it. Everyone wants that Australian dream of owning their own home. To say that you have 10 houses but that you rent them out and then you rent where you want to live, they just don't like that. They want to live in that house that's worth a million dollars but they want it now. A lot of the younger generation that I see, they want their mum and dad's house today, they don't want it in five to ten years’ time.
Phil Tarrant: So, what's your great Australian dream? Why are you doing this? You want to be a bazillionaire and drive around in a gold plated -
Daniel Walsh: I hope so. I want a Lamborghini. Pretty much, I want to have a nice lifestyle but I want to be able to free up my time to do the things that I want to do. So, I want to be able to build businesses and not have to stress about the cash flow. So, if I can have cash flow coming in from my properties, I'm able to live the lifestyle I want to live without having that stress of paying the bills. So, if I can create that thousand dollar passive income per week, that pays my bills to be able to go out and do the things I want to do. So, that is the reason that I started doing what I did. I realised at such a young age that compounding interest at the age of 20, by the time I hit 40 would be so significant, the leverage would take care of itself, just with time. So, I just have to wait time and leverage will take care of itself. Even if I don't pay anything off my portfolio, my portfolio will decrease in leverage over time, just because of compounding interest.
Phil Tarrant: So you've a full time job, which is good and it's stable. Is it a government job or is it a large privatised business?
Daniel Walsh: It's privatised.
Phil Tarrant: So, stability, payslips, guaranteed hours, all this sort of stuff so, you're probably the type of client a bank likes, in terms of, to lend you money because you get a salary and pay it back. How are you finding now, as you build this property portfolio and it gets bigger, are the banks still happy to lend you 1.9 million bucks in debt?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, they are. It is getting harder with serviceability. That's when it comes down to the team you have around you. So, for me, having a good finance broker, to be able to go to different banks and know what those banks are looking for. So, some banks may be good for business and you may go for them and then other banks would be good for PAYG. We strategically, two or three years ago, started formatting for today. So, we went to specific banks three years ago, knowing that once I tap out on the serviceability for that bank, that I can then go to another lender and continue growing my portfolio. So, that is the way I have strategically done it with my finance broker.
Phil Tarrant: So, how many different lenders do you have, as part of your portfolio?
Daniel Walsh: I'm across four at the moment.
Phil Tarrant: And they're all major banks or is there a mixed bag?
Daniel Walsh: No, not all. I'm with ME Bank, that's not a major bank. I'm also with NAB, Macquarie and Suncorp.
Phil Tarrant: Let's just quickly look at the portfolio. So, New South Wales, Brisbane, etc, or?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, I've got two in New South Wales. I have three in Queensland, one in Victoria and one in South Australia, and the block of lands in Victoria.
Phil Tarrant: Okay and the portfolio is gross neutral? Or, is it after tax, is it neutral?
Daniel Walsh: After tax, it's about 25 grand positive.
Phil Tarrant: After tax.
Daniel Walsh: After tax.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, what about cashflow on a monthly basis, are you having to sustain a portfolio with cash going in before you get an after tax benefit?
Daniel Walsh: No, what I do is, I do a variation tax. So, I get my tax back fortnightly.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Daniel Walsh: So, that cashflow is my property portfolio for the whole year and actually gives me money. So, depending on how much maintenance I do throughout that year, it's between sort of 25 and 30K positive and, if it's a bit more maintenance, well then, that takes that down a bit but, yeah, I get my tax back fortnightly, which helps me sustain the negativity in there.
Phil Tarrant: And that's something that you arrange with the tax office, via you employer?
Daniel Walsh: Me and my accountant have done that, sort of the last two or three years. Each year, we fill out the forms, get my variation tax done.
Phil Tarrant: For our listeners, the way it works essentially, is that rather than and correct me if I'm wrong, rather than your employer withholding a whole bunch of tax, you can get it back. You don't pay tax at the same speed that you would if you weren't claiming the rebates on an ongoing basis.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, pretty much what they do is, they'll look at all your properties, they'll see how much that you will get back. So, say they average about 15 thousand dollars back, they will give you maybe 10 of that back fortnightly. So, depending on what you earn that week, they give you a percentage of that back and at the end of the year, when it comes to tax time, generally I get another four or five thousand dollars because we create a bit buffer in there, so that we don't go over and take too much.
Phil Tarrant: So, going back to asset classes. Obviously you're quite strong in property. I'm imagine you've got super as well. Do you know what your super is doing for you? Are you actually in tune with the diversification of you super fund, who your super fund is with, what sort of returns you're getting?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, I'm with AustralianSuper fund at the moment.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Daniel Walsh: I just keep that at a moderate risk at the moment but I don't deal with that a lot. I sort of just, my employer puts the money into it, I see what comes out but that is just a second class asset for me. I don't rely on it. Just because I'm so young, I know that rules are changing, by the time I hit 65, 70, the rules will be changed by then. I probably won't be able to get the money out until I'm 80.
Aleks Vickovich: They're changing yearly.
Daniel Walsh: I don't look at that too much, to be honest. I hope that, with what I'm doing today, I don't even need to touch my super, to be able to do then when I'm 80. I'll have my passive income by the age of 40 to 50 years old and that will be enough to sustain me throughout my retirement.
Phil Tarrant: So, you're still driving a 2000 dollar shit-box or are you getting something a bit better these days?
Daniel Walsh: No, I just bought a new Colorado.
Phil Tarrant: There you go.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, so it's starting to move back up again.
Phil Tarrant: Things are looking up.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, I bought a Colorado and a caravan, so stay in the caravan.
Aleks Vickovich: That's why!
Daniel Walsh: Yes, yes, so starting to go back up there.
Aleks Vickovich: Is that to live in, while you're investing in all these properties?
Daniel Walsh: I wish, it would be cheaper!
Phil Tarrant: And property management, do you manage it all yourself or have you got property managers in there?
Daniel Walsh: No, I have pretty much for my whole portfolio, I have a team around me that does everything. So, I even have my own property managers pay for my rates, they pay for my insurances, they pay for my water bills. I don't want to touch anything. As you grow a large portfolio, having rates and everything like that coming in to you, you're pretty much paying a bill every day. So, I outsource all of that to my property managers and they deal with everything. So, I make sure that they work for their money.
Phil Tarrant: That's good. What do you reckon, Aleks?
Aleks Vickovich: Yes, I think he's in a good position. Much better than a lot of the Australians I hear aren't getting financial advice. A lot of the clients of my readers, who have fairly large stock portfolios, a lot of them, but underweight property a lot of the time. Some would argue that's because some in the financial industry have an incentive not to recommend property. They can't really receive a revenue benefit out of it and the laws are not really well set up-
Phil Tarrant: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Aleks Vickovich: For, financial advisors to recommend property or to talk about it. So, I think there is an issue there that some people get into property naturally and they do very well in it but then they may be not as diversified in their whole portfolio as they could be and vice versa. Those people who are seeing a financial advisor and building up a stock and bond portfolio are maybe not thinking about some of the issues that Daniel's raised.
Phil Tarrant: So, we're very pro advice on the Smart Property Investment Show. Me personally, I think it's good surrounding yourself with people, as you said Daniel, who are much more knowledgeable than you are and can do the job much better than you can, whether that's a mortgage broker or a buyer's agent. A lot of our listeners also have financial planners. For those of our listeners who do have financial planners or advisors and they're not proactively suggesting investing in property at all, or even at a small level, should they be challenging their financial advisor around this, do you think?
Daniel Walsh: Yes, absolutely, I think. Most good advisors will say "If you come to me with a desire to invest in property", then they'll help you do that. They just can't make specific property recommendations. Arguably, they also have incentives to put you into other financial products because there's a revenue benefit there.
Aleks Vickovich: Absolutely, for those property investors who want to get a licenced financial advisor, who can give them that breadth of knowledge on other asset classes, they should be saying to them "look, the property's not negotiable for me. I'm a property investor. What can you do with the rest of my investible income?"
Phil Tarrant: Okay, What you're saying, though, is that it's important to always have a focus towards the diversified portfolio, not being underweight or overweight to much in any particular asset.
Aleks Vickovich: Yes, I mean, the general consensus amongst the guys in the ivory tower tends to be that diversification is key and that includes real property without any doubt. But, certainly, a lot of financial advisors won't bring it up so, if property matters to you, bring it up with them and a good one will work with you on that.
Phil Tarrant: If you're financial advisor isn't really wanting to participate in a property conversation -
Aleks Vickovich: Yes, well maybe he's not the right advisor for you. Some have more background in stocks, you know they have different specialisations. The point that Daniel made around, he's found a mortgage broker who also independently in his private life has a portfolio himself and there's plenty of advisors out there, who I know have property portfolios themselves. That might be the right sort of professional for you to be working with if you're really looking to build a property portfolio.
Phil Tarrant: Sage advice. Daniel, let's finish s off, mate. We've run out of time but a couple of real quick, short fire questions, which I'd like to finish up with. If there was one book that you're going to recommend to budding property investors, millennials, what would it be?
Daniel Walsh: To be honest, I don't really read any books. When I'm on the trains and that, I just listen to podcasts. I listen to YouTube so I just go through pretty much all of those and that's something I can do while I'm sitting around doing nothing. I can just listen to those podcasts, get advice. I also subscribe to Sky Business Channel, go onto "Your Money, Your Call". There's all those different avenues at the moment. They're giving free advice, these people, experts in what they do and they're give free advice away. So, I think that if you want to learn a lot more, you have to get actively involved in trying to find out where these property experts are, what they're doing and how they're giving their information away.
Phil Tarrant: Fair enough and what's the best bit of advice you've ever got when it comes to property investment.
Daniel Walsh: Houses never go down. It's always cheaper to buy now than it is in 10 years’ time. Too many people, they look at now and they of "It's too overpriced, it's too overpriced. I can't buy now. You know, the market's gone up." They always think they've missed the boat. You've never missed the boat. There's so many markets within markets. There's all different states, so start looking abroad, start looking at different states, start looking at those markets that are more affordable. So that's what I would have to say.
Phil Tarrant: You said that you were researching property. You invested four years in your education before you started investing at 20 years old. If you could go back in time, back to the 16 year old guy, what would you say to him that's different to what you've done.
Daniel Walsh: I wished I had of leveraged myself harder. When I started investing, I pretty much was at that age, I was a bit scared of debt. So, when I very first started, I had researched it all. Like many people, you research but you never actually act on it. So, I did that for a long time and then I started to actually act on it at the age of 20 and realised that I should have acted even earlier. So, for me, I had the money sitting there. I'd saved the money up and I just didn't act on it early enough. If I had of done that, I could have been even in a better position but they are lessons learnt and that is something that I take full advantage of today.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. To finish up, what's the worst property in your portfolio and why?
Daniel Walsh: None. I think they all complement each other. I have some that will have a lot of capital growth and others that have just rental yield and some that I invested just for the rental yield to complement the other ones with the negative cash flow. I think if you have a well balanced portfolio you shouldn't have anything that's extremely bad. Some might not perform but your overall portfolio should be sitting around that neutral mark when you are building.
Phil Tarrant: Great, thanks for sharing your story. I really appreciate it.
Daniel Walsh: Thank you, Phil.
Phil Tarrant: It's good.
Aleks Vickovich: All the best.
Daniel Walsh: Thanks.
Phil Tarrant: Thanks Aleks. I like it. A couple of things I'd take out of this podcast. First thing would be a focus round diversification, about not being too weighted in one asset class or another. If you want to increase, asset class sounds like a real technical term, if you want to increase you education around the type of asset classes available and what might work well for you, where would you be hunting around? Where's a really good source of -
Aleks Vickovich: I'd go for InvestorDaily, mate.
Phil Tarrant: InvestorDaily!
Aleks Vickovich: Comes out first, every morning.
Phil Tarrant: Not supposed to be a plug, but ... Try and strive toward having some sort of balance in your portfolio or de-risk yourself. Markets do change, economies changes, you know we're very pro property but it doesn't hurt to have some cash parked away somewhere else or some other facilities to help plan for wealth creation or retirement. I'd also point out the ongoing need for research. I think you can only make smart investment decisions if you're appropriately educated and I think, Daniel, you are a case in point that education doesn't start and stop before you start investing. It happens all the time. You're fortunate that you get to spend time on the trains, probably doing long journeys and you're investing in your education every single day, so that's really smart.
Daniel Walsh: Yes, it's pretty good. Being able to have the time to just invest into learning is what is key to be a successful investor. You need to have the time to be able to do it. If you don't have the time, outsource it.
Phil Tarrant: Smart. Okay, thanks for tuning in everyone. Remember to check us out on all the social stuff, just search smart property investment. If you've got any questions for Daniel or myself around this particular podcast or the show in general [email protected] Today, you can follow me at Twitter, if you like @philliptarrant. Please keep those five star [reccies 00:26:38] coming through on iTunes, really do appreciate them. The more people that give those nice five stars, the more people that listen to it and we can continue to build this community, which we're passionate about doing. Remember, tune in next week. We'll see you then. Bye bye.