RBA rings alarm on high debt levels
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Adding to your portfolio is one thing, maintaining it is another, but knowing when it’s time to let go and sell off a property is a separate thing altogether. Investor Kevin Sum joins host Phil Tarrant in the studio once again and explains why he would decide to sell off two properties out of his nine-strong portfolio.
Kevin also discusses about his romantic yet cautious approach to property, how he manages offset accounts and knowing when you should and shouldn’t have a tenant in your property.
In this episode, you will also find out choosing when to haggle commission with your real estate agent, knowing what boxes your property should be ticking and deciding on what opportunities you should be jumping on.
You’ll hear all of this and much, much more in this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show!
If you like this episode, show your support by rating us or leaving a review on iTunes (The Smart Property Investment Show) and by following Smart Property Investment on social media: Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
If you have any questions about what you heard today, any topics of interest you have in mind, or if you’d like to lend your voice to the show, email [email protected] for more insights!
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Property refers to either a tangible or intangible item that an individual or business has legal rights or ownership of, such as houses, cars, stocks or bond certificates.
Phil Tarrant: Welcome to The Smart Property Investment Show, with your host, Phil Tarrant.
Good day, everyone. It's Phil Tarrant here, host of The Smart Property Investment Show. Thanks for joining us, irrespective of where you're listening to today's podcast. Often I use my plane trips to tune into podcasts. Available time, or you're in a car or you're in a train, you're commuting somewhere or you're cutting the lawns, I hope you find what we chat about today beneficial and help shape the way in which you either think about property or motivate yourself to do more of it.
Today I'm going to go back in time, and often we like to do episodes like this where we get repeat or returning guests into the studio to give us a bit of an update on where they are, how they've been, what they've been up to, and it's still early 2018 and a lot of people are still reflecting on the year ahead and what plans they're going to put in place to keep growing their property investment portfolio. Today's guest, Kevin Sum if you remember, and if you haven't tuned in yet we had a chat with Kevin 4th of May, 2017 so a good eight, nine months ago now Kevin came on and shared his insights, and I'll read the description from our original chat with Kevin just to give you a bit of insight into the top things we discussed.
It says Kevin Sum. It says, "Property investment is a lot like dating, but that by casting a wide net across various trading markets, investors can increase their chances of happiness by finding the one." There we go. "In this episode of The Smart Property Investment Show, he joins Phil Tarrant," that's me, "to discuss his thoughts on emotional investment, what he looks for in the right property market, and his advice to budding investors on how they too can begin their whirlwind romance with property." It's all very romantic. Kevin, how are you going?
Kevin Sum: Good, Phil. Thanks for having me back. It's been a while and it's good to catch up again.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah. Are you still romancing property?
Kevin Sum: Yeah, but a lot more cautious. You know when you're looking for your long term the one, you tend to be more cautious, make sure that you're making the right move, finding the right properties and stuff.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, so the one for you. I think it's more than the one. You've got a number of properties in your portfolio. Let's do a quick recap on the depth of exposure you have in Australian property. How many properties in your portfolio?
Kevin Sum: I had nine, but since then I've offloaded two so now I've got seven. Basically the two I offloaded, one was in Sydney. It was a unit I felt that it's done it's job. I don't see that it's going to go crazy anymore. It's just because that it's a unit in a suburban location in Granville, so that's why I offloaded that. Another one was in Orange. I offloaded that as well. It's made the money and I think it's done its job.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, interesting. So that gives us plenty of things to talk about today. For many people in property it's a buy and hold strategy, so acquire property, accumulate property, grow a portfolio and at a point in time pay down the debt and then you realise the benefit from living on the cashflow. What you've done is you've gone backwards in your portfolio in terms of numbers from nine to seven. You mentioned Granville. Granville, was it?
Kevin Sum: Granville, yes.
Phil Tarrant: In Granville which is in New South Wales not far from Parramatta. Two stops from Parramatta past Harris Park. A vibrant area, centre of Sydney. And the other place is Orange so that's a regional rural property.
Kevin Sum: Yep.
Phil Tarrant: Orange is three and a half, four hours from Sydney straight west.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, around that. Around that.
Phil Tarrant: Past Lithgow, Bathurst way. Was it a house or a unit?
Kevin Sum: It's a house in Orange.
Phil Tarrant: A house. Okay. So you've decided to downsize your portfolio.
Kevin Sum: Correct.
Phil Tarrant: Why? You said you think they've done their job, as in they've grown in value, so you've sold these. What have you done with the cash that you realised from the sale of these properties?
Kevin Sum: At this stage I've been investing in other stuff like startups, and also at the same time because it seems to me that the property market especially in Sydney is starting to plateau so I want to keep the cash so that in 2018 or even towards 2019 I want to go again in the Sydney market.
Phil Tarrant: So you're liquid.
Kevin Sum: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: What are you doing with the money at the moment? Is it sitting in an offset account?
Kevin Sum: It's sitting in offset accounts.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, so let's talk about that dynamic for a second. For our listeners that aren't familiar with that concept, an offset account is essentially a bank account that's connected to one of your home loans. So what you do is let's say if the debt on the home loan is $200,000 and you have $200,000 sitting in your offset, you don't pay any interest on that property if it's an interest only loan. You still might be paying some of the principal if that's the case. So that's what you're doing right now. You're offsetting the debt, so you're getting the double benefit of it. You're getting the ability to reduce the cash required for you to service your property-
Kevin Sum: Correct.
Phil Tarrant: And you always get the benefit of having money ready to go.
Kevin Sum: That's right. That's right.
Phil Tarrant: To strike when the opportunity sits.
Kevin Sum: Correct, so when I see a good deal then at least I know I've got deposit ready and I can make a good offer with good terms.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. How much cash do you have sitting in your offset?
Kevin Sum: 400-ish, maybe.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, 400 grand.
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: So it's a good war chest to go out there and purchase property. The Granville property then, and I remember we spoke about it when we first got together Kevin, 4th of May. Go and check it out. When did you buy the Granville property?
Kevin Sum: I bought that in 2009.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, 2009, and a two bedroom unit was it?
Kevin Sum: Two bedroom unit.
Phil Tarrant: Two bedroom unit.
Kevin Sum: Yep.
Phil Tarrant: Two bedroom unit in Granville, 2009 and you sold it in 2017?
Kevin Sum: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: Last year.
Kevin Sum: last year. Yes, yes.
Phil Tarrant: So you held it for eight odd years.
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: What did you pay for it?
Kevin Sum: I paid 258.
Phil Tarrant: 258.
Kevin Sum: Yep.
Phil Tarrant: And you sold it for ...
Kevin Sum: 475.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. Are you happy with that?
Kevin Sum: I'm pretty happy. I mean look, I know that in the Sydney market there have been properties where you can basically triple the value in that period of time, but having said that, yes, I bought it for 258 and basically I lived in it for a while and when I started renting it out. I lived in it for around a year, so let's say I started renting it out in 2010. I was getting already $350 rent from day one, so at least I know that I'm positively geared and I don't have to worry at night thinking what happens if I lose my job or something bad happens to me.
Phil Tarrant: It's good. And the Orange property? When did you purchase that?
Kevin Sum: Orange property, I couldn't remember the exact date. Maybe around 2011 or '12, something like that.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and do you remember what you paid for it?
Kevin Sum: 145. Around that.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and what did you sell it for?
Kevin Sum: I sold for 180.
Phil Tarrant: 180.
Kevin Sum: Yep.
Phil Tarrant: So you made a bit of money there.
Kevin Sum: Not much. Yeah, a little bit.
Phil Tarrant: So when you take into consideration you bought for 145 and you sold for 180, holding costs for five years, so you had to pay the mortgage on that.
Kevin Sum: Yep.
Phil Tarrant: Obviously you had to pay stamp duty when you purchased it. I don't know what [LVA 00:06:57] you purchased at. You might have had to pay LMI, lender's mortgage insurance, and then when you sold it you had to pay agent's fees?
Kevin Sum: Yep, agent's fee. Yep. Yep.
Phil Tarrant: So do you think you're square or you made a bit of money out of it?
Kevin Sum: I would say Orange property is more or less square. Granville property obviously I would make some money on it. Having said that, the Orange property was a good exercise. Number one because it doesn't really cost me much to actually hold. I was getting 200-odd dollars every week in rent and the good thing was I actually revalued my place and I got equity out. Back then I didn't have much money, so that enabled me to purchase other properties from that.
Phil Tarrant: So you used it as a tool to leverage you into other properties.
Kevin Sum: Correct.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and that's an interesting strategy and for our listeners who are new to investing, some of these terms might be a little bit confusing but I guess the important point to make is Granville, over a six year period went up in value $220,000, so you can't complain about it. That doubled in value, and then same scenario. You go to look at your cost to get in. Stamp duty, legals, buyer's agency fee potentially, LMI and the sell cost, you're still ahead of the game for quite some time so you must be pretty satisfied with the result of that.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, I'm pretty happy. Can't complain.
Phil Tarrant: Whereas Orange is a different situation. You got the holding cost of your mortgage and you had to hold a $250,000 property for five years and mortgages. It's a [inaudible 00:08:25] amount of money.
Kevin Sum: Exactly. Exactly.
Phil Tarrant: A lot of people think selling properties is when you realise the value in the property, but there is a cost associated with selling property.
Kevin Sum: Exactly.
Phil Tarrant: And you need to be factoring that in.
Kevin Sum: Yes. Fully agree.
Phil Tarrant: So what made you choose those two properties within your portfolio as the two to sell?
Kevin Sum: I look at investing as it's basically a tool to make money, so to me investing in property or shares or even going to casino playing blackjack or whatever, it's the same thing. It's just the level of risk, and also at the same time the opportunity cost. So I think Granville and Orange, those two properties, they've basically reached their peak and I was thinking look, I can keep it there and maybe in another five years time it might go up by say 50 grand for Granville and maybe like 30 grand for Orange, but why don't I realise the cash, free up some of my money, and also my borrowing capacity to buy something which I can use a similar amount of money or I can use the deposit but it will make me more money or I think it will go up more in value?
Phil Tarrant: So it's the utility of the money.
Kevin Sum: Correct.
Phil Tarrant: And that's an interesting point. On The Smart Property Investment Show, and I often go on Sky Business: Your Money, Your Call and you get calls in from visitors and you got an earpiece in, and the typical question will go along the lines of, "Hi panel. I'm thinking about investing in X suburb. What do you think?" And the standard answer to it is, "It depends on your circumstances, but by investing in suburb X, if you invested in suburb Y would you get better use of your money? Greater utility of your money?" So what you're talking about is the same scenario. You've realised the value in your properties, and obviously Orange you realised a bit of money but it's essentially neutral, but at a point in time you've gone, "I'll take some money off the table and the money that I've made in this Granville property, I can probably get greater utility out of that if I put it into another property and I can realise the growth that I received from that."
Kevin Sum: Correct. That's right, that's right.
Phil Tarrant: And is this a strategy you've thought or been educated on, or is it just something that's come to you quite organically?
Kevin Sum: No, it's something which just came up because it was just one day. I was looking at my portfolio. I mean generally when you're in the game you don't really look at it from a big picture, so I was looking at my properties. I was thinking, "Okay, look. What happened in 2015? How much did I think they were worth? 2016? 2017? Okay." And I was thinking, "Look, these two. Yes, it's gone up humongously from say 2009 or whenever I bought the Orange one for the first few years," but then it kind of stabilised a little bit so that's when I thought, "Should I keep it and wait for the slow, organic growth or should I offload it and find something which has a better growth?" Say for example with the Granville one, I might be able to buy two in Brisbane and the two in Brisbane that I buy might go up by say $150K in total, but for the Granville one I only predict say $50K so why not offload Granville, which potentially might give me $50K, and put in maybe Brisbane or wherever, which might potentially give me more than $50K?
Phil Tarrant: Yeah, and potentially also get greater diversification because you can have two properties in different markets in Brisbane or different suburbs. It's a good strategy. Did you find the selling process an easy one, or was it a headache?
Kevin Sum: No, it was relatively okay. I mean obviously it took some time to sell. Maybe a month or so, but yeah, it was relatively okay.
Phil Tarrant: And you used a real estate agent for both of them?
Kevin Sum: 100%, yes.
Phil Tarrant: How did you choose the agent? Did you go through listing presentations, or did you choose someone and say, "Sell my property?"
Kevin Sum: Basically I talked to a few and in the end for the Granville one I chose the one who ... No, they didn't sell me the property. They were managing my property at one stage. I was basically just going through sold listings on RealEstate.com and I was just seeing who's getting good results, who's always selling properties or always have properties under contract, and basically what the selling price was.
Phil Tarrant: On The Smart Property Investment Show we talk a lot about acquisition of properties, the accumulation phase. Creating wealth through property. What we're talking about here is part of your property journey, and you're going from accumulation to selling, but you're selling to accumulate for the future. So I'm always quite intrigued at the dynamics of selling because often it's an overlooked part of property investment. It's not the real sexy stuff. It's only sexy if you sell for a lot of money you make. That gets you a lot of money, right?
Kevin Sum: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Phil Tarrant: Did you haggle on commission with the agent when you were selling?
Kevin Sum: I think the commission they offered was reasonable so I didn't bother, because I was thinking this way. I could always interview like, 10 agents and basically just get them to outbid each other, but what's the point if it makes them lose incentive to get the best price for me?
Phil Tarrant: Yeah, and that's the important thing. So if you haggle on commission obviously it decreases the appetite of the agent to sell it and you might not be getting the best service, so it's a fine line and a lot of people make the mistake of choosing the agent that has the cheapest commission because they feel as though they'll pay less money, but if you pay a little bit more commission-
Kevin Sum: Yep. You get much more money.
Phil Tarrant: But you get 5% more on your sales price, you're a lot better off in the game. And did you find the agent you worked with ... Before I go there, what sort of marketing did you do on these properties?
Kevin Sum: Basically just standard stuff. I think just Internet marketing, and we didn't do any sexy stuff like putting in rental furniture or anything like that because in that price point it's not worth it. For the Granville one I did put in a tenant first, because I kind of thought that property would appeal to investors more than owner occupiers. For the Orange one I left it empty because I think it's just the Orange dynamic and there might be some owner occupiers who would want to buy the property.
Phil Tarrant: That's a really important point for our listeners. You've presented the property in its best light for the target market most likely to buy it. Did you get that advice from the real estate agent? Did they help you make that decision or did you say, "This is what I think," and they agreed with you?
Kevin Sum: Basically, "This is what I think," I told them.
Phil Tarrant: And they didn't contest it. They said, "Yeah, you're right there?"
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: How long did you have someone in the Granville property before you sold it, like a new tenant?
Kevin Sum: I think the new tenant went in probably a month or so.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and were they accommodating as part of the sales process? Were they nervous that they were going to get chucked out?
Kevin Sum: No, no, no because as part of the strategy I was thinking, "Look, if I'm going to appeal to investors, I might as well think from an investor point of view, and I think a lot of investors, they like stability." So basically I signed a one year lease with the tenant, which is kind of risky when you're trying to sell a property because you know that basically homeowners would be out of the market, but I guess that's the risk that I took and it worked.
Phil Tarrant: I think for a lot of investors, insurance of immediate cashflow from day nought is very important, depending on their serviceability or their cashflow situation. Did you sell the Granville property to an investor? Do you know?
Kevin Sum: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: It was? And what do you think attracted them to the property or the market? You're talking about selling because it's the top of the market, so this person's bought at the top of the market. $475,000 is the purchase price, but what sort of yield were you selling it at?
Kevin Sum: They were paying $430 per week, so I would say around 4%-ish, something like that maybe.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. And they thought that was a good yield? They were happy with that?
Kevin Sum: Well for a Sydney market it's reasonable I think.
Phil Tarrant: Were they local in the area, or were they from out of town do you think?
Kevin Sum: I think they lived in the Hills District.
Phil Tarrant: Do you know if they were a sophisticated investor or it was one of their first investments? No idea?
Kevin Sum: I would think it might be one of their first investments. I was just purely guessing because it seemed that they had to cross-collateralize their existing property for whatever reason, because last I was hearing from the agent they kept extending calling off. I mean, not that it really bothers me because I'm getting good rent, but they were saying they had to value their own property so that's what made me think maybe they're cross-collateralizing for whatever reason.
Phil Tarrant: [crosstalk 00:16:26] What was the buying process? Did you list it at 475 and get 475, or did you list it higher and you negotiated down to 475?
Kevin Sum: It was a range. I think it was from around 470 to 500, and we just got that 475. The first offer was I think 465 or something like that.
Phil Tarrant: And what'd you say? No?
Kevin Sum: Yeah. I said no. I countered I think something like 490 or something, and it just kept going.
Phil Tarrant: So the sale ... And you speak to any good real estate agent and they'll say that if a property is priced appropriately for the market it will always sell. Priced appropriately means different things to different people, so if you were thinking that was the range, when did you go, "Okay, so I'm not going to take 465. I'm okay with 475?" What was the catalyst for you to say, "Yes, that's okay," rather than holding out for another 10 grand? What was your decision making process?
Kevin Sum: Basically it was from day one. That was when I saw two very similar properties on the same street. I think one was on the next block and one sold for 430, bigger than my one, and one sold for 465.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, so you went, "475's pretty good."
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: So you knew the market.
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, so you were able to make an informed decision and not be greedy.
Kevin Sum: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, because a lot of people often make that mistake where people who are selling properties think their property's worth a lot more than what it's worth and people buying property think the property's worth a lot less than what the person thinks.
Kevin Sum: That's right.
Phil Tarrant: So the market dictates what something finally goes. By the way, where in Granville is the property? Is it near the station?
Kevin Sum: Abbott Street.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. Is it one of those blonde brick sort of buildings? One of those?
Kevin Sum: Yeah. I think it's 15 years old.
Phil Tarrant: Okay.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, those blonde ones.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah there's quite a lot of them out that way. What would you do different if you were going to sell another property again?
Kevin Sum: It depends on the circumstances again. If I'm not desperate then probably I'd do the same thing. Obviously if I'm desperate then it just all comes down to price.
Phil Tarrant: By desperate ... What would make you desperate? Cashflow crunch?
Kevin Sum: Yeah. Let's just say I needed the cashflow and stuff. Then obviously it's going to be reflected in the price.
Phil Tarrant: You've gone from nine to seven. Are you going to go down any further, or you don't need to sell any more or you don't plan to sell any more?
Kevin Sum: No. Don't plan to sell any more.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and in terms of moving forward now, what sort of markets are you looking to acquire in now?
Kevin Sum: At this stage I'm still looking at Brisbane. Maybe the $250 to $400K markets. Well now it's no more 250 in the places I'm looking at. Probably $3- to $400K market, or maybe in Sydney if I can find something good, like something which is a real bargain.
Phil Tarrant: A real bargain meaning under market value?
Kevin Sum: Yes.
Phil Tarrant: At what sort of price point? At the medium prices Sydney [inaudible 00:19:04]
Kevin Sum: I mean, probably 7 to 900 maybe.
Phil Tarrant: Okay. 7 to 900.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, 7 to 900 for a house. You can still find some out The Hills area like Seven Hills, Quakers Hill, that area.
Phil Tarrant: They're good regions, but I guess it comes down to understanding what your objectives are in investing. If you're looking for cashflow, you're looking for capital growth. Everyone's circumstances are different. There are seven properties left in your portfolio, so you're heavy in Queensland now, are you? What's the rest of the seven properties?
Kevin Sum: Three in Queensland, two in Sydney, and two in regional New South Wales.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and are you happy with the regional properties? Are they performing for you?
Kevin Sum: Yeah. I mean I'm getting the rent. Obviously you won't get as much capital growth. No actually, I should rephrase that. It's not that you won't get as much capital growth, but then the capital growth won't be stable so maybe in two years you might double but then for the next five years it'll stay flat.
So say for example one of the ones I got in Broken Hill. Bought it for 48 grand. Bought it for a year or two. I did evaluation and came back around $100K. But then it's probably still worth $100K, so maybe if I bought in Sydney, and look at my Granville place. It's not even double yet when you look at the percentages.
Phil Tarrant: Yeah, it's a lot of moving parts. What about financing? Are you confident that at a point in time when you want to purchase a new property that you'll be able to secure financing from bank? A lot of investors are struggling at the moment in terms of increased serviceability. The way in which lenders are viewing investors has changed quite a lot and the appetite for borrowing over 80% is waning. Okay to get finance? No problems there?
Kevin Sum: No problems. Because all my properties when I bought it it's either 80% or less, but that was when I bought it and I guess because I've offloaded some of the properties, I guess the new properties that I would be looking at, unless they're a really good bargain, I would be looking at an okay rental return so that I can sleep at night. A high rental return means more serviceability so that would help. So for me it's not really much of an issue because of the market I'm playing in.
Phil Tarrant: We met on the 4th of May last year. It's early 2018 now, so eight-ish months ago. When we chat in a year's time, and we'll get you back in the studio, what would you say to your future self in a year time? What will your portfolio look like and what will you be doing?
Kevin Sum: In a year's time, it's going to be interesting because this year probably is more of a wait and see year. It's not a go crazy year for me. So in a year's time, maybe I would get another property or maybe I would stay the same.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, nothing wrong.
Phil Tarrant: Do you think that you're getting good value for your 400-odd thousand dollars sitting in an offset? Obviously if that's sitting against an interest rate of 4%, you're doing quite well out of it. You'd struggle to get that same return on your money if you put it into some sort of other investment vehicle unless it's very risky like Bitcoin.
Kevin Sum: Exactly. Exactly.
Phil Tarrant: So are you happy with that strategy? You don't think you should park that money somewhere else and try and realise a better yield so you can pay off your mortgage?
Kevin Sum: Well I guess it depends on what opportunities are out there. Like say for example if I put the $400K in Bitcoin a year ago I would be laughing now. I don't know how much it's worth now, $400K. Probably ...
Phil Tarrant: A lot of Bitcoin.
Kevin Sum: A lot of Bitcoins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of them.
Phil Tarrant: You would've like, 500% times it, right? [crosstalk 00:22:28]
Kevin Sum: Exactly, exactly, exactly. So it depends on opportunity. If the right opportunity comes up, then why not? Because at the end of the day it's opportunity costs, so my opportunity cost now is that I'm not putting it in a growth vehicle such as new shares or properties or even business ventures and stuff like that. I'm parking it to wait for the correct opportunity, but having said that, it'll probably just be one year because after one year I think I'll have to do something either way.
Phil Tarrant: Do you get itchy feet? Do you need to be doing something to keep yourself happy?
Kevin Sum: Well, you want to. Once you get into the game you actually can't really stop, so I'm still looking in the market actively. Obviously I haven't been going to a lot of open houses lately but every night I would still spend some time to go online and see how the market's going in different areas, but at the same time I guess because of all the changes and stuff I want to see what happens in the next few months first.
Phil Tarrant: And that's wise counsel for a lot of our listeners. Don't rush into anything right now. I think it's a market in transition, and obviously there's markets all over Australia which are different to each other, but it is an evolving market. Interest rates we don't know yet what's happening. Our Reserve Bank hasn't met yet this year to actually determine the direction of interest rates but you can guarantee at a point in time interest rates are going to start going up. Whether it will stay steady for the immediate future I'm not too sure. I'm not an economist so I'm not going to offer that advice. There's a lot of people smarter than me and above my pay grade that can give you that sort of insights, but I think the message for investors is it's okay to take it slow. Keep your powder dry. Strike when the iron is hot. What other ... What do you call those things? What do you call those? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm trying to think of the English phrase for those type of scenarios, but that's cool, Kevin. So you're happy at the moment?
Kevin Sum: Yeah, I'm pretty happy at the moment. I guess the main thing that I always remind myself is yes, keep looking. Yes, do your research. But at the same time, don't overanalyze.
Phil Tarrant: That's fine. Yeah. And metaphor is what they are. That was the word I was looking for. Yeah, yeah. Sam's nodding his head. Took me awhile. Yeah, don't overanalyze, and I guess to book it in the chat, I read the description from the podcast when we spoke on the 4th of May. Go and check it out about finding the perfect match. So you're in the market right now. You're out there actively dating trying to find the right property. When do you know you've found the right property for your circumstance? And your circumstance is going to be unique to yourself, but when do you know that you've found the one?
Kevin Sum: Basically when it ticks all the boxes.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, and what are your boxes?
Kevin Sum: It might be say for example if I'm looking in ... One of the areas I'm looking in is around Ipswich area, so Redbank Plains, Springfield in Brisbane, or even in Logan if the correct property comes up, but it's so hard in Logan now. Look, it's got development potential which means it's got the good sized land, it's got the good frontages. Or maybe it might be a Queenslander and the downstairs level might be legal height which is 2.3 metres and so I can put two families in. Those are the boxes that I would want to tick.
Phil Tarrant: So it's not capital growth and it's not just cashflow or yield. It's-
Kevin Sum: It's both.
Phil Tarrant: Something a bit of an X factor.
Kevin Sum: Yeah, exactly.
Phil Tarrant: Both in some [crosstalk 00:25:39] Yeah, it's whatever it's good for too. Good luck out there. I think you're looking for the one that everyone's looking for.
Kevin Sum: Yep, yep. It's going to be hard.
Phil Tarrant: And it's competitive. Do you use a buyer's agent? You do it yourself?
Kevin Sum: No. Do it myself.
Phil Tarrant: Do it yourself?
Kevin Sum: Yeah.
Phil Tarrant: Why do you do it yourself?
Kevin Sum: I think it's part of the journey. It's about enjoying the journey, and I think I get more control by doing it myself.
Phil Tarrant: Okay, that's fair. Good to be happy.
Kevin Sum: Makes me happy. Yeah, yeah. I can go out for a trip every now and then. Go out for a holiday.
Phil Tarrant: That's good. And your one piece of advice for investors in today's market? What would it be?
Kevin Sum: I guess it's just, I said before, don't overanalyze. Keep looking. Make sure you buy with your head, not your heart, but yeah, it's always back to that. Once you think you've found a property and you've done the research and it makes sense, just go for it. Don't waste your time.
Phil Tarrant: Sound advice. Kevin, appreciate your time.
Kevin Sum: Thank you.
Phil Tarrant: And remember to check out SmartPropertyInvestment.com.au. If you don't subscribe to our morning market intelligence newsletter so you can be the first to know what's going on in this world of property and the economy, you can subscribe. SmartPropertyInvestment.com.au/subscribe. If you like social media and that's where you get your info, just search for Smart Property HQ. You will track us down there and like us, follow us, do all that sort of stuff. Any questions for myself or the team or for Kevin about his property journey, I'm sure he'll be happy to answer them. Email us. [email protected] And if you'd like to come on the show, get in touch. Kevin, it's not that scary, is it? It's pretty easy?
Kevin Sum: It's pretty easy. Pretty good. Quite enjoyed it.
Phil Tarrant: Good. We like to chat to investors and hear everyone's stories, so the invitation is there and the Smart Property Investment community is large now. Tens and tens and tens of thousands of people are tuning into The Smart Property Investment show, so it's good to be part of it and I do appreciate you spending your time to join us as we go down this path of creating wealth through property. We'll be back again next time. Until then, bye bye.
The information featured in this podcast is general in nature and does not take into consideration your financial situation or individual needs, and should not be relied upon. Before making any investment, insurance, tax, property, or financial planning decision, you should consult a licenced professional who can advise whether your decision is appropriate for you. Guests appearing on this podcast may have a commercial relationship with the companies mentioned.